So .... Gaza

I have to admit when I watched the video there were a few things I found strange. Not enough to investigate but metalman does bring up some interesting points.

For starters, the sound seems totally wrong. It really does sound more like a starter pistol. A sniper bullet would have a totally different sound, you'd hear the bullet coming before impact, it's a very distinct and scary sound. For instance, if the bullet missed completely and zoomed by hitting nothing but air, you'd hear it very loud and clear zoom past. I heard none of that in this clip, but that may be perhaps due to the crap microphone on whatever device was used, which appears to be a cell phone. Still, a bullet hitting concrete or dirt should send lots of debris in the air and you'd hear that too when it falls back. I didn't hear that either.

Also, being hit by a sniper bullet we should see lots of blood. I didn't notice any but I didn't play the video in full screen either ('cause I'm at work and I'm not paid to watch videos and I don't care to attract attention to that really). So there should be lots more blood and he should probably be screaming in agony a lot more too. Perhaps he was just grazed and was staying low to avoid another hit? Maybe.

The other thing that I found odd was the location of the camera man and the others in the area. They did not appear to be taking cover and appeared just as exposed. Which is odd because there appears to have been lots of cover to take refuge in, they just chose not to. Also, since they chose to stay in the open the best thing they could have done for their friend would be to throw debris around him to provide some cover so that he could crawl away or that they could get to him. They just sat and watched which was kinda odd. They also didn't seem concerned about where exactly the shots were coming from which should be the first thing to do so that you can take proper cover.

And finally, if that was a real hard ass sniper he wouldn't have fired any shots after the first hit. Snipers are typically trained to change location after taking a shot because eventually enemy forces find his location and fire rockets back at him. But lets say this sniper felt secure enough to keep shooting, he'd rather wait for the victim's comrades to come over to assist him and then shoot him too. It's a standard ploy. The guys gonna bleed out anyway, why waste amo and risk exposing your location while also reducing your chance of a second kill?

So ya, I'm starting to think this video may not be totally legit. But it's also not important, the fact is the Palestinian civilian population is paying a heavy price and are victims not only of the Israeli war machine but also of Hamas as well.
 
Glaucus said:
For starters, the sound seems totally wrong. It really does sound more like a starter pistol. A sniper bullet would have a totally different sound, you'd hear the bullet coming before impact, it's a very distinct and scary sound.
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I would have been very suspicious if this video had hollywood sound. A lot of people seem to think that hollywood sound effects are realistic but they are, of course, meant to be exciting, and also meant to meet the expectations the audience has built up from previous movies. Often in real life people will be surprised by how un-gunny real gunfire sounds.

Bullets, when they are working right, tend to travel faster than sound. That is particularly true for long guns meant to hit targets at a distance. A thirty-aught-six will leave your Springfield doing between mach2.5 and mach3 depending on the bullet you're pushing. You will not hear that coming. At a thousand yards the sound of the gun firing will be about two seconds behind the sound of the bullet going past and will be very much muted by the distance. In a cluttered urban environment I'd be surprised if you could hear much of the shooter at all on a phone mic with AGC and nearby noise.

The snap you hear is the shockwave from the bullet's supersonic flight. By the time you hear it, it's gone past.

The whizz and whir sounds people are used to from cowboy movies only happen when the bullet is travelling sub-sonically and often tumbling because it has lost energy by hitting something - the classic ricochet sound.

I was looking for something all sciencey and nerdy on youtube to explain it all but I think that this is probably even better. It takes a while for the shooting to begin but it's instructive.

Also, being hit by a sniper bullet we should see lots of blood. I didn't notice any but I didn't play the video in full screen either ('cause I'm at work and I'm not paid to watch videos and I don't care to attract attention to that really). So there should be lots more blood and he should probably be screaming in agony a lot more too. Perhaps he was just grazed and was staying low to avoid another hit? Maybe.
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Again - hollywood. High velocity rounds don't make much of a hole going in and blood follows gravity. Traumatic sudden injury usually causes shock and the pain takes a while to settle in. Ever been knocked off your bike by a car?

People who have been stabbed or shot often describe the initial sensation as a strong punch.

If it is faked it was faked by people who are familiar with being on the receiving end of fire and made for people who have also been on the receiving end of fire and not for the typical hollywood gunfight consumer - which would seem like a giant propaganda miss.
 
It all depends on the weapon used and bullet used. IDF has been reported to use hollow points. Those are anything but clean. And you're correct, at first impact someone might not even notice being shot, but it seemed like he was there for some time on the ground. I'm sure he had time to notice. of course, he could have had a punctured lung, that might have kept him quiet. As for the sound of the bullet, yes, it's a cracking noice but you should also hear reverberations as it traveled through the environment right after the crack. Kinda like it fading away, sorta like a fast moving jet fighter passing over head, you first hear a boom and then it kinda fades away. I've heard a CF18 do that overhead once, scared the shit out of me. Btw, why didn't you post the first youtube video that shows up on the google search results?


 
Glaucus said:
They just sat and watched which was kinda odd. They also didn't seem concerned about where exactly the shots were coming from which should be the first thing to do so that you can take proper cover.
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If you look at the still from Flikr you'd see that if the fire was coming down ally the guy was lying in front of then the two groups of people ARE behind cover.

Snipers are typically trained to change location after taking a shot because eventually enemy forces find his location and fire rockets back at him.
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They might do that if they are fighting a proper army.

But lets say this sniper felt secure enough to keep shooting, he'd rather wait for the victim's comrades to come over to assist him and then shoot him too. It's a standard ploy. The guys gonna bleed out anyway, why waste amo and risk exposing your location while also reducing your chance of a second kill?
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Maybe, but this guy was getting up. I'm not a sniper myself but I'd bet that it's generally not good form if the guy you just shot gets up and walks away.
 
Glaucus said:
And you're correct, at first impact someone might not even notice being shot, but it seemed like he was there for some time on the ground. I'm sure he had time to notice.
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Oh he noticed alright. He clearly notices and he checks himself out and he seems to cry out too but in fear more than pain.
As for the sound of the bullet, yes, it's a cracking noice but you should also hear reverberations as it traveled through the environment right after the crack. Kinda like it fading away, sorta like a fast moving jet fighter passing over head, you first hear a boom and then it kinda fades away [...]

Btw, why didn't you post the first youtube video that shows up on the google search results?
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Because:

"can echo off these mountains to both sides"

"gonna put the camera in this box"

"too far away to capture just the sound of the bullet"


Different acoustic environment, different class of recording device (I assume because he didn't say phone) and he says that the bullets weren't close enough to the camera to just get the crack. The firing position was relatively close too, between 40 and 100 yds he says.
The video I posted also had a different acoustic environment but it was filmed on a phone and the firing distance is more like 200 to 300 yds based on the delta between the crack and the thump. The video I posted also contained more variety with at least one instance of the classic ricochet sound. Furthermore it contains at least two instances in which you hear the crack and not the thump and in both those cases people in the scene remark on how close "that one" was. This illustrates the operation of the AGC (automatic gain control) that most phones and many other point and shoots have. While you can't necessarily perceive the difference between close and not so close shots (because in either case they are very brief loud sounds) the closer the shot the more AGC clamps down and attenuates subsequent sound until it recovers.
 
Well, ya, I'll buy that the phone is a bad recording device which would explain why the sound sounded the way it did. And I did kinda hint that's what may be causing the problem.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
If it is faked it was faked by people who are familiar with being on the receiving end of fire and made for people who have also been on the receiving end of fire and not for the typical hollywood gunfight consumer - which would seem like a giant propaganda miss.
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It's a fake, its been how many days? and where are the corpse photos? there were cameramen everywhere to record the event, yet the video stops very abruptly

I know the Palestinians are very reluctant to parade around displaying these victims of Israeli war crimes, so it's understandable that no photos are being posted of this victim, ... at the hospital, in the morgue, in a box, with a fox, ... :rolleyes:
 
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metalman said:
It's a fake, its been how many days? and where are the corpse photos? there were cameramen everywhere to record the event, yet the video stops very abruptly
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Why bother creating a fake when Israel is providing them with hundreds of real victims. I can see why someone might want to spend a lot of energy arguing that it's fake (to distract from all those undoubtedly real mangled children). And as for cameramen everywhere, I'm not entirely sure whether you are talking about news teams or the internationals that were right there, the one with the cell phone and the other taking the stills. Unless you mean that the only reason that the place isn't crawling with cameramen is because these guys have managed to deliberately sneak off to find a place where there were none of the thousands of cameramen in Gaza so that they could make their film without being seen by them.
 
metalman said:
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Hilarious. Especially the comments. Oh boy oh boy. Must be the "Good Guys" doing all that posting.

Funny how they'd be burying a guy who died with his suicide vest on without taking it off first and how it left the body intact in its shroud while tearing apart so many people so far from the body. They must be using some type of new explosive more powerful than anything our science has developed without going nuclear.

However, the footage looks strangely similar to this footage of a car bomb devastating a funeral procession in Syria two years ago.
 
Like I said before, the legitimacy of that video isn't that important. What is important is this: Israel Creates 'No Man's Land' in Gaza, Shrinking Strip by 40%

“We lost our homes and so now we live in the streets,” said Haels, holding a toddler in her arms who clings to her pastel-patterned hejab. “This war has destroyed me.” She says at least she knew where her home was. Some of her neighbors could not find their homes as they walked down streets made unrecognizable by the wreckage and horrifying by the presence of death.
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Destruction on a city scale. It's basically what Assad did to his own people.
 
Glaucus said:
It's basically what Assad did to his own people.
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What Israel has been doing to the Gaza strip is "basically what Assad did to his own people"?
A curious comparison to draw and, in my opinion, a rather ridiculous one.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
They must be using some type of new explosive more powerful than anything our science has developed without going nuclear.
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those Jews, always spending those late nights in the science lab


 
Robert said:
What Israel has been doing to the Gaza strip is "basically what Assad did to his own people"?
A curious comparison to draw and, in my opinion, a rather ridiculous one.
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You're right, what Assad did was far worse.
 
Glaucus said:
Destruction on a city scale. It's basically what Assad did to his own people.
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I think the video that metalman (possibly inadvertently) posted is an indication of at least one fundamental difference between the conflicts. The armed opposition in Syria is openly murderous against the civilian population.
 
metalman said:
those Jews, always spending those late nights in the science lab
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And that was done with no more than one vest worth of explosive? Impressive.



(You know, I should clearly be more careful with my sarcasm because it seems to be completely impenetrable to some minds - maybe I should just try being direct).

What the heck does that have to do with you posting a video that claims to be a funeral being blown up by a suicide vest left on the corpse but is actually footage of a funeral procession being blown up by a car bomb in Syria two years ago?
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
(You know, I should clearly be more careful with my sarcasm because it seems to be completely impenetrable to some minds - maybe I should just try being direct).
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Please continue with the sarcasm. It may occasionally be lost on the intended recipient but I still enjoy it.
 
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