Plane down. 295 passengers dead. Neocons squeal with delight.

metalman said:
"Plane down. 295 passengers dead. Neocons squeal with delight."

Neocon = Jews!

blaming it on the Jews is ALWAYS Fluffy's favorite conspiracy
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Almost all neocons are Jews. Almost no Jews are neocons.
 
Glaucus said:
No I'm not at all surprised that your favorite theory is to blame the jews, but I felt it was far to stupid for me to waste any time with. Btw, what's it like being a tool?
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Hey look Mike. Not only do you find yourself agreeing with Harper - you also agree with metalman.
 
And then there's Vladimir Antyufeyev, the deputy prime minister for state security for the Donetsk People’s Republic. I'm sure we're all shocked to find out he's actually not Ukrainian at all but Russian. And not just any Russian, but part of the special operations unit and has taken active roles in other quiet and peaceful areas like Latvia, Moldova, and Georgia.

It seems to me that those who claim the uprising in Eastern Ukraine is nothing but a local affair are liars. Scum bags would be an even more accurate term.
 
I was trying to find an article that I was reminded of by your report of Russia shooting down a Ukrainian fighter. A story I remembered about a Ukrainian pilot being tried in Russia. I found it. I have no idea if there's anything to it, I just rembered hearing about it in passing.

Meanwhile the people of East Ukraine still have plenty of valid reasons to fear Kiev's airplanes. They've been taking a pounding. Surprised you haven't been protesting about Kiev using air strikes to kill their own people.
 
#Fluffy'sFavoriteConspiracies2through999

The Tea Party blew up an Malaysian airplane over Ukraine just to interrupt President Obama's burger break
 
That's a good point fluffy but I know you long enough to know that you seem to hate things that are dominated by jews. You've posted crime articles about jews similar to how others here have posted crime articles about blacks or mexicans. Now maybe it's all a coincidence. But yes, being against what Israel does does not make you a jew hater, however, jew haters do tend to also hate what Israel does and they also tend to take a very biased view of the entire Middle East against Israel. Jew haters for example might not ever see any fault with other Middle Eastern groups or are always arguing against Israel no matter what the issue or perhaps always conclude that it was an Israeli conspiracy even when there is absolutely no evidence what so ever to support that at all.
 
Glaucus said:
You've posted crime articles about jews similar to how others here have posted crime articles about blacks or mexicans.
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I'd be curious to be reminded about that. If you are talking about the giant rip off that Wall St pulled on the US and entire world the fact that Jews occupy some of those high seats is really very secondary (and once again it's a tiny minority of Jews anyway) and yet people that wrote about the financial crisis and the culpability of CEOs were called anti-semites. Bizarre, no? Trying to blame the actions of a few on an entire people as a means of self defence?

But yes, being against what Israel does does not make you a jew hater, however, jew haters do tend to also hate what Israel does and they also tend to take a very biased view of the entire Middle East against Israel.
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Are you one of those obnoxious apologists that try to claim that Jews who criticize Israel are "self hating"?

or perhaps always conclude that it was an Israeli conspiracy even when there is absolutely no evidence what so ever to support that at all.
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I said it was my favourite (conspiracy) theory and the bad actor here would have been my favourite whipping boy the US but the US relationship Israel (especially intelligence to ex intelligence) would have served well to get a bomb onto the plane. Of course, because I didn't provide oodles of context you decided I must be blaming the jews (and presumably every last man woman and child of the jews).

It isn't even my most likely theory, just favourite conspiracy one - mostly because it looks like it would be pretty easy to pull off and very difficult to prove plus it also hits at two enemies (by which I mean enemies of the US - Israel is, at least officially, neutral on both Ukraine and Malaysia - something which I thought you might have been aware of and which I thought made it fairly clear I was implicating the US as instigator).
 
Glaucus said:
...perhaps Reductio ad Neoconum or maybe Reductio ad Harperum. And why not, you've done it often enough.
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Or Reductio ad Saddam or Reductio ad Ghaddafi or Reductio ad Assad or Reductio ad Putin. Don't imagine I'm not familiar. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have.
 

“As you know, the Europeans have tried to figure out the best way forward,”
“From my perspective — and I have the benefit of not being in the government — if there is evidence linking Russia to this, that should inspire the Europeans to do much more.”
“So Europeans have to be the ones to take the lead on this”

“The latest breakdown of nationalities of those on board the flight is as follows:
· 189 Netherlands

· 44 Malaysia

· 27 Australia

· 12 Indonensia

· 9 UK

· 4 Belgium

· 4 Germany

· 3 Philippines

· 1 Canada

· 1 New Zealand

Four passengers’ nationalities remain to be verified.
 
Just getting back to my favourite (conspiracy) theory for a second - there is another motivation for Israel to participate in such a plot - without the distraction of world soccer they need something else to pull attention during their ground war. Another happy coincidence I intended to post the other day but .. so many other distractions. Now I think I'm pretty much done with that.

However, it looks like maybe I should sue someone for stealing my idea, or at least push to get a writing credit and a share of the proceeds ( so like maybe 50% of nothing. I'm not greedy, I'll settle for 40% ). Of course he has felt compelled to attach a few distracting and gratuitous baubles on what is otherwise a very neat little scenario that could have been carried out with the direct knowledge of fewer than twenty people. Unfortunately it's probably a little bit too neat.
 
And then firefox crashed .... sigh. Usually it can restore a session though.

So, without links then.

Russia has said that it detected illumination from a missile system tracking the plane. Ukrainian army had Buk systems in the area. Rebels may or may not have had any Buk system. There was a rumour that they had captured one from Ukraine but Interior Minister (I think it was) expressed doubts that the rebels possessed any. Kind of a mixed message on that front.

However, looks like Kiev bares some responsibility. Spanish flight controller claims he was working in Ukraine at the time of MH17 and that after the downing he and other foreign nationals were told to leave and all recordings and flight data were confiscated. That may or may not be true but the lock down of recordings could be a reasonable presumption to limit liability. (Air traffic control tapes from 911 were similarly destroyed perhaps to hide gross failures). In this case Kiev is in control of air traffic and has the responsibility for directing air traffic safely through Ukrainian air space. The airspace in the trouble spots in the east has been closed since early or mid July. The normal flightpath for that flight is considerably to the south. Ukrainian flight control was derelict in directing the flight through that airspace. It wasn't supposed to be there.

If the rebels fired then they had no reason to think that this aircraft was anything other than an airplane out to kill them especially if the transponder wasn't working or they lacked the technical ability to interpret the response.

Interfax reported that Putin's presidential jet also passed through that airspace that day and Kiev might have been trying to get a shot on him and blame it on the rebels. Russia said that was nonsense and Putin hadn't flown over Ukraine in a long time.

The president of Ukraine says he has no doubt the plane was shot down with a Buk operated by "professionals" - highly unlikely considering what they shot down and the obvious implications that would ensue.

Kerry is piling on the sauce and blaming Putin. Putin is disciplined and he will have to play not to be drawn and just keep to his plan of dismantling dollar hegemony - he just returned from engineering a new agreement among the BRICs to start a competitor monetary system the America's IMF. Putin has oil but he might not have time because the US has the worlds most powerful military and understands the threat of an alternate banking system - after all, how can you foreclose on people who don't borrow from you.

Putin is in no position to push for a hot war but it would play to US advantage.

The black box has supposedly been recovered and sent to Moscow. Putin says he's happy to cooperate with investigators.

Kerry claims evidence of missile systems coming in over the Russian border. The Americans are using this to really lean on the European leaders who have been reluctant to sanction Russia. Not to long ago the US fined France a significant amount of money for dealing with Russia but it didn't stop them.

Lot's of focus on what Kerry has said, lots of focus on tearful relatives and strewn bodies. Haven't found any official statements from the rebels.

Do have a link I just dug up now from the Japan Times. Interesting screed. Seems to try to build a case on Putin not saying he was responsible:

“I believe that Russia will continue to deny it is responsible even if there is evidence, especially indirect evidence as it will most likely be the case,”

Yes, that is basically Russia is guilty because they deny it even if we have evidence that doesn't point to them. The neocons are squealing with delight.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I'd be curious to be reminded about that.
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If I remember correctly it had something to do with organ stealing and some Israelis. It was the sort of story that was rather unremarkable, it was posted on it's own thread for no apparent reason and the only interesting thing about it was that it was posted by you and that it involved jews.

Are you one of those obnoxious apologists that try to claim that Jews who criticize Israel are "self hating"?
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Have I made such a claim? Last I checked, I love Jon Stewart and his critique on Israeli foreign policies. So you must have me confused with someone else. I certainly wouldn't read Slate.com if I had a hate on for Israel critiquing Jews.

I said it was my favourite (conspiracy) theory and the bad actor here would have been my favourite whipping boy the US...
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Yes, but... You kinda have made it clear in the past how you feel that the US jumps only exactly how high Israel tells it to jump. So are you now trying to convince me that you hate the puppet and not the puppet master?

It isn't even my most likely theory, just favourite conspiracy one - mostly because it looks like it would be pretty easy to pull off and very difficult to prove plus it also hits at two enemies
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It sounds like you're talking about a movie or a game. Sorry, I didn't really think along the lines of fantastical plots. In that case then my favorite would be that Typhon finally escaped from his prison under Mount Aetna and boarded flight MH17 to take a vacation in the far east (like all good multitentacled monsters do these days). Zeus would have none of that and thus shot the plane down with a flurry of lightning bolts. Typhon was ripped to peaces and scattered around the crash site. To help cover up the incident the Pro-Russian rebels decided to quickly dispense with the body parts and tamper with the crash site to remove all evidence.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
The normal flightpath for that flight is considerably to the south. Ukrainian flight control was derelict in directing the flight through that airspace. It wasn't supposed to be there.
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Yes, the flight wasn't on the normal flight path. However, to say that the air space was closed is not quite accurate. Air space is three dimensional, and by that I mean it has a height factor. MH17 was considerably above the closed portion of the air space. It was believed that anything above a certain altitude was safe because it was assumed that no one was firing medium range SAMs.

Interfax reported that Putin's presidential jet also passed through that airspace that day and Kiev might have been trying to get a shot on him and blame it on the rebels. Russia said that was nonsense and Putin hadn't flown over Ukraine in a long time.
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Putin obviously has better knowledge as to what weapons the rebels have and what they're shooting at, so of coarse he wouldn't fly over Ukraine. Perhaps he should have shared that info with the rest of the world so we could do a better job of rerouting around the madness.

The neocons are squealing with delight.
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Neocons are frustrated more than anyone. Obama hasn't really done much nor will he. NATO isn't gonna do a darned thing here, the most we can expect are a few more sanctions. Perhaps if there were more Italians on the flight something might come of it, but the conspirators never thought of that I guess.
 
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