Two explosions went off near the finish line of the Boston Marathon

faethor said:
Well those Southern Baptists better be converting to a less violent religion.
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at least they're not serial killing atheists

faethor said:
We only have your claims until you can show us those numbers and how you derive your opinion.
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What a Maroon! :rolleyes:
"buy a clue"

metalman said:
Murder rate by state

Washington DC murder rate is twice that of Louisiana’s
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Law Enforcement, Courts, & Prisons: Crimes and Crime Rates

ANCESTRY CATEGORIES REPORTED

State & County QuickFacts
 
faethor said:
I agree with you. These guys were living in the USA for a decade. They appear to be US Citizens. I think we need to do what we do in these instances. Take the time to build an understanding of why this happened. It could possibly be a Chechnya Terrorist group. Or they could be alone. But, we should do like with Ted K and Tim M investigate their homes, computers, writings, friends, etc.
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Could start by finding out why they were approved for citizenship?
There were warnings they had terrorist ties
 
metalman said:
at least they're not serial killing atheists
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I don't want Southern Baptists serial killing anyone, least of all atheists.

What a Maroon! :rolleyes:
"buy a clue"
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You provide us no backing statistics for your point of view. It's a valid question to show your work. I viewed the links you provided - searching for that Car Jacking #. instead of Car Thefts. I couldn't find it. Sorry. Do you something more direct?

Something more for you to have fun with. MN is not only 49th out of 50th for least crimes. We also trend fairly progressive. The Republicans have had State Congress and Stat Gov control both at the same time for about 4 years out of the last 40. I'd have to look up statistics to get that more exact. 2012 the Republicans were voted out again. Though our most conservative district still holds onto the Moonbat Michelle Bachmann. She only had to outspend her opponent by more than 3x to ensure she won by a few percentage points.
 
faethor said:
You provide us no backing statistics for your point of view. It's a valid question to show your work. I viewed the links you provided - searching for that Car Jacking #. instead of Car Thefts. I couldn't find it.
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The u.s. justice department categorizes the crime of "car jacking" as a "completed or attempted robbery of a motor vehicle"
"home invasion" is categorized as "forced entry into the home"

No separate statistics are kept for either, they are mixed with burglary, armed robbery, motor vehicle theft, larceny statics, depending on state, you must infer the frequency of car jacking based on news reports, and other statistics and surveys

17 states have enacted Castle doctrine laws that protect homeowners from civil and criminal prosecution for shooting car jackers and home invaders

New Mexico is a state without castle doctrine laws, home invasions frequently occur there

Florida passed a law removing rental car decals because of frequency of tourists being car jacked, because since they were out of state, they didn't have a gun

faethor said:
MN is not only 49th out of 50th for least crimes. We also trend fairly progressive.
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83% white
 
metalman said:
No separate statistics are kept for either, they are mixed with burglary, armed robbery, motor vehicle theft, larceny statics, depending on state, you must infer the frequency of car jacking based on news reports, and other statistics and surveys
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Thanks for letting us know how you've come to your conclusion. Similar to you I've found no direct data to compare. Crime statistics and variability are difficult enough. Drawing a conclusion on gut feel of local and nation news report isn't a valid method of comparison. What you have is a feeling. Those aren't solid points of comparison.

17 states have enacted Castle doctrine laws that protect homeowners from civil and criminal prosecution for shooting car jackers and home invaders

New Mexico is a state without castle doctrine laws, home invasions frequently occur there
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The important thing is to get the statistics for these States and compare them to not only New Mexico but the rest of the nation. MN for example has a lower rate of violent crime than most, if not all of those 17 States, and we don't have a castle doctrine. Is New Mexico the outlier or MN? We look at statistics for that, not gut feelings of news reports.

Here's a page you may be interested in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#Effect_on_crime_rates There's a study that confirms your view that Castle Laws make things better. There's a couple studies that say Castle Laws make things worse. There's a study on Florida that crime decreased after the passing of a Castle Law. Though it appears to have decreased not statistically different from before the law - so no clear statistical demonstrable improvement.

Logic does say that crimes should go down if criminals meet life threatening guns. However, we both know in reality people are more emotion and desire based than rational. Heck if criminals are rational they'd realize crime is an awful bet with penalties far worse than the reward. Just look at the State Lottery system - as they say a Tax on people who are really bad at math.
 
faethor said:
Thanks for letting us know how you've come to your conclusion. Similar to you I've found no direct data to compare.
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every car jacking and home invasion results in a news story, easy to do a search and count events

faethor said:
MN for example has a lower rate of violent crime than most, if not all of those 17 States, and we don't have a castle doctrine. Is New Mexico the outlier or MN?
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If the residents of MN are law abiding, whether you have castle doctrine or whether everyone owns a gun or not doesn't matter to crime rate

its demographics and rural/urban mix that correlate to violent crime

based on its urban/rural mix NM crime rate would be expected to be similar to Colorado, Nebraska, South Dakota, instead it's #3

So it would seem we should limit immigration to match the demographics of MN


faethor said:
. Heck if criminals are rational they'd realize crime is an awful bet with penalties far worse than the reward. Just look at the State Lottery system - as they say a Tax on people who are really bad at math.
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everyone who buys a lottery ticket thinks they will beat the odds, same with criminals, except their odds of being caught are low, its the repetition of crimes that gets them caught
 
metalman said:
every car jacking and home invasion results in a news story, easy to do a search and count events
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Metalman this is a guess on top of your other guesses. Though you could demonstrate this who audited all crime reports on the State of Texas, and every other State, to ensure they reached the news media for reporting.

If the residents of MN are law abiding, whether you have castle doctrine or whether everyone owns a gun or not doesn't matter to crime rate
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So then we'd have to conclude gun ownership and castle doctrines don't have a major impact. Here I thought Republicans only wanted effective laws.

based on its urban/rural mix NM crime rate would be expected to be similar to Colorado, Nebraska, South Dakota, instead it's #3
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Then we need to look at what statistics are different to first identify correlation. Next step is the difficult one, prove causation. Does the Castle Law do anything? I go back to the statistics which shows no significant difference.

So it would seem we should limit immigration to match the demographics of MN
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Might make more sense than imposing a Castle Law. Though perhaps we should impose more college education as New Mexico's college degree level is towards the bottom 10% compared to MN's top 10% ranking. So, indeed there are other statistics which are dissimilar. If we're going to get the best bang for our buck we need to improve the one's that show more promise.

everyone who buys a lottery ticket thinks they will beat the odds, same with criminals, except their odds of being caught are low, its the repetition of crimes that gets them caught
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Exactly my point. Both are betting on beating very bad odds, rationality is low in those instances.
 
faethor said:
So then we'd have to conclude gun ownership and castle doctrines don't have a major impact.
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If the population is already law abiding

would say it has a major impact, if you compare similar demographics
Texas and New Mexico have similar demographics, Texas is much more Urban, contains 6 cities in the top 20 US cities by population, while New Mexico's largest city is Albuquerque #32, Texas is 11% black, New Mexico is 2.5% black, so Texas should have a large bias to higher crime rate, however
New Mexico #3, Texas #22



faethor said:
Though perhaps we should impose more college education as New Mexico's college degree level is towards the bottom 10% compared to MN's top 10% ranking. So, indeed there are other statistics which are dissimilar. If we're going to get the best bang for our buck we need to improve the one's that show more promise.
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I thought all those workers at Los Alamos where already highly educated??

More likely the cause is that 9.7% of New Mexico residents were foreign born per 2010 census

faethor said:
Both are betting on beating very bad odds, rationality is low in those instances.
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Arrested 396 times, woman knows how to work the system

If only they would just send her to MN
 
faethor said:
Since you are incapable of providing these statistics let's look again. As a reminder here's what you said
Burglaries: Texas is ranked #2
Car Jackings: The National Insurance Crime Bureau compared states for car theft per 100K population. 2006 Texas ranked 2nd. It still holds as 2011 LoJack ranks Texas 2nd and if you want here are the 2010 FBI crime statistics by State just in case you want to run some numbers and check that out.

I think it may be you that's not looking at the statistics. Second is not second best but second most crimes per capita for those events. Go here if you want to see more Texas Crime Rankings
and, of course, we need to compare gun ownership rates. I'll admit the ranking of 30th in 2007 is a bit old. So here's one newer 2010 Texas is ranked 33rd by gun ownership per capita . Seems some other States are buying guns faster.

What we can see is gun ownership rate does not track crime rates. Texas is in the middle of gun ownership per person and towards the top of crimes per person. You accused me of not reading the stats right. Now to be fair you put up no stats to be read. So go ahead and show your stats and I'll gladly read them.
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friggin ouch!! just... you know...ouch!!!... people should google shit before they spout off eh? :D
 
metalman said:
If the population is already law abiding
would say it has a major impact, if you compare similar demographics
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We have two different approaches. You presuppose you know the answer. It appears to only be race in your mind. And you guess an answer, you have feelings that car jacking every time and everywhere make the news. You have nothing showing this to be true and no solid data to compare. You can believe whatever you want but you don't get your own facts. Instead we should be looking at all demographics and comparing what we can count. Taking from there possible correlations and working to demonstrate causation.

Texas and New Mexico have similar demographics, Texas is much more Urban, contains 6 cities in the top 20 US cities by population, while New Mexico's largest city is Albuquerque #32, Texas is 11% black, New Mexico is 2.5% black, so Texas should have a large bias to higher crime rate, however
New Mexico #3, Texas #22
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What crimes are you comparing and where. Again no sources. Is this another feels like it from sensationalized news and no actual counts?
Gun violence rates per capita puts Texas as #15 higher in position than their #33 gun ownership ranking. New Mexico is at #41 and #20 for gun ownership rates. If you claim the demos are similar but New Mexico has a higher gun ownership rate and a lower gun crime rate. New Mexico is #32 for burglaries while Texas is #2. It seems New Mexico is your example that high gun rates are good. Texas with lower gun rates + Castle Law + Death penalty appears to be worse. Stop making up numbers from your feelings and show us sources.

It appears somehow you got the numbers dyslexied?
Property crime Texas #2
Property crime New Mexico #36
Note the links are to all the crime ranking categories on that site. I didn't count them all. I'd estimate about 70 categories.

Arrested 396 times, woman knows how to work the system

If only they would just send her to MN
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You mean to tell me the high gun ownership rate didn't stop her?
 
Nope - no bomber here - sorry to have disturbed you good folks. OK boys, on to the next house.
 
they're charging him with using a WMD ... after all the people we killed, in that whole big ass country called iraq; george bush could find not one pressure cooker...
 
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