These two things can be true.

[Wayne]

The United Stated government can be corrupt and broken at the core, yet still represent the best available option for the American Citizen which is helpless to stop them.

 

[Wayne]

Donald J Trump can be a total shitbird as a person, yet still have policies that would help save the Republic at this point.

 

[Wayne]

Joe Biden can be completely dimensia-riddled but the hatred of Donald Trump could have compelled him to victory from his basement in 2020

 

[Wayne]

America may survive the low intellect of it's average Citizen, but it will never be the same..

 

[Robert]

Trump v Biden is a barnstorming return to that old moral dilemma of having to choose between a bucket of sick and a bucket of shite.
Both are clearly befuddled old men who struggle to utter coherent sentences and should be nowhere near any political office, let alone the presidency.

 

[Wayne]

Trump v Biden is a barnstorming return to that old moral dilemma of having to choose between a bucket of sick and a bucket of shite.
Both are clearly befuddled old men who struggle to utter coherent sentences and should be nowhere near any political office, let alone the presidency.

I cannot say that I disagree. Biden is a 100% no chance of my vote. I like Trump's policies but his hubris is too divisive for the country. I'd be much happier if it were two different options than either of them

 

[Wayne]

The US Government could do much more to help the US Citizen, if they weren't so completely wasteful with the limited money they fiscally generate though the tax base. SOOOO much "pork"

 

[Wayne]

There was a time when reporters actually reported the news instead of sitting around a table trying to determine what the news was...

 

[ilwrath]

Donald J Trump can be a total shitbird as a person, yet still have policies that would help save the Republic at this point.

I'm legitimately curious enough about this sentence to uncloak and de-lurk.

What policies does Trump espouse that could save us? I haven't seen him do or say one single thing after 2020 that hasn't been designed specifically to hurt this country. His latest comments on NATO and our international relations have been so utterly foolishly dangerous that I can't even wrap my brain around them.

Is NATO perfect? NO. Yes, NATO costs us a lot of money. But without enduring treaties and coalitions, the USA has no more legitimacy to any action than China, Russia, or North Korea does. Without NATO, we're just another corrupt bully out in the field with a big stick we want to club anyone we damn well want to this week. Might doesn't make right. As much as it can be frustrating, we need society, and a global community. And *MY USA* is supposed to be a bastion of those things. That's worth the cost.

I really damn wish people would stop and actually THINK about things like this once in a while.

 

[Wayne]

I'm legitimately curious enough about this sentence to uncloak and de-lurk.

What policies does Trump espouse that could save us? I haven't seen him do or say one single thing after 2020 that hasn't been designed specifically to hurt this country. His latest comments on NATO and our international relations have been so utterly foolishly dangerous that I can't even wrap my brain around them.

Is NATO perfect? NO. Yes, NATO costs us a lot of money. But without enduring treaties and coalitions, the USA has no more legitimacy to any action than China, Russia, or North Korea does. Without NATO, we're just another corrupt bully out in the field with a big stick we want to club anyone we damn well want to this week. Might doesn't make right. As much as it can be frustrating, we need society, and a global community. And *MY USA* is supposed to be a bastion of those things. That's worth the cost.

I really damn wish people would stop and actually THINK about things like this once in a while.

I agree with securing the borders, though I agree that the migration policies are completely broken and need fixing.

I agree with the policies of lowering taxes on the big companies ONLY because historically they brought in more investment to the country which means more jobs, which is returned by a higher tax base. America is losing it's worker-base, meaning losing its ability to do anything else.

I believe in supporting veterans over Illegal Aliens. One homeless Veteran is one too many.

I agree with NATO members actually paying their agreed dues and keeping their military at agreed levels (which they aren't doing).

I disagree with the idea that somehow I haven't thought about these issues. Sadly, I do, almost too much really.

But like I tried to say, I dislike Trump as a human being but in America, given the ONLY choice between Trump's self-serving ego-driven bullshit and Biden's incoherent puppetist socialistic stupidity and the actual destruction of this country, I have no choice but to take Trump's side.

Still wish I had any other choice(s), but that's the broken system that is America...

 

[ilwrath]

I agree with securing the borders, though I agree that the migration policies are completely broken and need fixing.

Well, my problem is that there's a big difference between securing the borders, and making up crazy stuff that isn't even happening. Yes, there are some problems, but even his own convoy that went down to the border were completely befuddled when they didn't find most of the stuff he was claiming was going on...

I agree with the policies of lowering taxes on the big companies ONLY because historically they brought in more investment to the country which means more jobs, which is returned by a higher tax base. America is losing it's worker-base, meaning losing its ability to do anything else.

That's one I think we have to agree to disagree on. Historically giving companies huge breaks has not had them bringing more jobs, but rather offshoring more profits, and giving their executives bigger bonuses. We've been trying this trickle down since back in the Reagan days, and the data shows it just doesn't work that way, and the middle class has suffered for it.

I believe in supporting veterans over Illegal Aliens. One homeless Veteran is one too many.

This would mean a lot more to me if you could show me one benefit for our veterans Trump has actually supported in his actions. Cuz I can't find one.

I agree with NATO members actually paying their agreed dues and keeping their military at agreed levels (which they aren't doing).

Yeah, I agree, too. But that's not really the actual quotes from Trump, though. His statements had very little to do with that, and much more supporting the idea of the USA just taking its ball and going home to do things ourselves. And that is undoing the hard fought lessons our parents or grandparents or great-grandparents for some learned and the peace they earned through WW2.

I disagree with the idea that somehow I haven't thought about these issues. Sadly, I do, almost too much really.

But like I tried to say, I dislike Trump as a human being but in America, given the ONLY choice between Trump's self-serving ego-driven bullshit and Biden's incoherent puppetist socialistic stupidity and the actual destruction of this country, I have no choice but to take Trump's side.

Still wish I had any other choice(s), but that's the broken system that is America...

Yeah, obviously other choices would be best. But unless Biden dies and Trump gets thrown into Solitary Confinement, we're not going to get them.

I guess I just see it as after the actions Trump has done to hurt this country, from the election lies that undermine our democratic system, to his sickening Jan 6th party that undermined our international standing, to the dangerous nonsense he is spouting today, undermining our treaties and alliances, Trump should absolutely NEVER be allowed to be President again.

Not that I like Biden. This will now be the 2nd election where he's been literally my second to last choice.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Well, my problem is that there's a big difference between securing the borders, and making up crazy stuff that isn't even happening. Yes, there are some problems, but even his own convoy that went down to the border were completely befuddled when they didn't find most of the stuff he was claiming was going on...

Want to not see anything at the border? Announce that you are bringing a convoy to a certain point at a certain date on the border to make a fuss about what's going on there and maybe make some trouble.

 

[ilwrath]

Want to not see anything at the border? Announce that you are bringing a convoy to a certain point at a certain date on the border to make a fuss about what's going on there and maybe make some trouble.

So the situation is so out of hand that it is threatening the security of our nation, but large areas of it can be hidden and have the evidence removed, if we just have a couple days advance notice before the arrival of some rando rabble-rousers?

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

So the situation is so out of hand that it is threatening the security of our nation, but large areas of it can be hidden and have the evidence removed, if we just have a couple days advance notice before the arrival of some rando rabble-rousers?

It would not surprise me at all, given how easy it is to get the news just about anywhere that operations would take a holiday so as not to have needless interactions that would hurt business.

 

[Wayne]

Well, my problem is that there's a big difference between securing the borders, and making up crazy stuff that isn't even happening. Yes, there are some problems, but even his own convoy that went down to the border were completely befuddled when they didn't find most of the stuff he was claiming was going on..

I'm not sure where you get that the invasion of the United States "isn't even happening"... It's an absolute, documented by both sides fact that illegal aliens are invading this country at record numbers, and those numbers simply reflect the caught, not the "gotaways".

You say "his" convoy.. That's laughable at best. Trump may have not discouraged the convoy from happening, but he didn't have a hand in it directly. "He" isn't claiming anything. All the mainstream media is showing it real time. You've doubtless seen dozens of videos of hundreds of illegal aliens violating American law and simply walking into this country unhindered by a hamstrung border patrol agency who has been told BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION to simply look the other way and let it happen.

Again, documented facts. Look up the Mayorkas emails on any site you choose should you actively choose to deny it.

I say this not as someone who likes Trump, or Biden for that matter. I don't like either of them and I don't think either of them is right for this country. I don't like Haley either, but honestly, do you hate the big bad scary orange man" so much that you're willing to overlook facts?

But that's not really the actual quotes from Trump, though. His statements had very little to do with that, and much more supporting the idea of the USA just taking its ball and going home to do things ourselves. And that is undoing the hard fought lessons our parents or grandparents or great-grandparents for some learned and the peace they earned through WW2.

I stand partially corrected on my stance here. When I wrote my original reply, I had not seen Trump's actual quote. Now I have. I see your point, but still kinda agree with what he was probably trying to say but not with what he actually said.

If you're going to have NATO, and its membership has rules and fees, and certain members are ignoring those rules and fees, they shouldn't be allowed to be a part of NATO. Simple. Don't pay your dues, don't get your membership renewed. If you don't want to be a part of the club, fine, let your membership dues lapse. Same with NATO as it is with, say, a gym membership...

That being said, I absolutely don't agree with Trump's statement (which has been misconstrued like everything he says, but I can only take his words) in that it's both asinine and irresponsible to "encourage" anyone to attack any other nation based on their failure to pay their dues.

 

[Wayne]

I say this not as someone who likes Trump, or Biden for that matter. I don't like either of them and I don't think either of them is right for this country. I don't like Haley either, but honestly, do you hate the big bad scary orange man" so much that you're willing to overlook facts?

Sorry, that was perhaps a little harsh. It's a little too easy in this polarized world to see red and blue, black and white, but not grayscale as life really is. I have no love of either guy, but a much stronger disdain for the current administration.

 

[Robert]

I say this not as someone who likes Trump, or Biden for that matter. I don't like either of them and I don't think either of them is right for this country. I don't like Haley either...

An old friend of mine works for the UK foreign office in Washington. In January he was sent to Iowa for the Republican caucuses. Vivek and DeSantis were still running then. I asked him what he thought of the candidates. This is part of his reply:

Saw them all up close doing their stuff and Haley was probably the most presidential, which probably means she's got no chance!

Having seen her action myself a few times since, I think she's another bumbling idiot but probably agree with the "most presidential" assessment, which says a lot about the calibre of candidates on both sides.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

An old friend of mine works for the UK foreign office in Washington. In January he was sent to Iowa for the Republican caucuses. Vivek and DeSantis were still running then. I asked him what he thought of the candidates. This is part of his reply:

Having seen her action myself a few times since, I think she's another bumbling idiot but probably agree with the "most presidential" assessment, which says a lot about the calibre of candidates on both sides.

"Most Presidential" means most in favour of starting a war or two. The neocons never left and will eviscerate anyone insufficiently belligerent.

 

[ilwrath]

Sorry, that was perhaps a little harsh. It's a little too easy in this polarized world to see red and blue, black and white, but not grayscale as life really is. I have no love of either guy, but a much stronger disdain for the current administration.

Naw, no worries. I gave myself a timeout after reading my 2nd reply again. I get it all too well.

And it's funny you chose the wording you did.

do you hate the big bad scary orange man" so much that you're willing to overlook facts?

We can't even agree on the facts, anymore. To me, Trump caused a National embarrassment with his little party, and nearly caused a complete clusterfuck with his little slates of bogus electors stunt. Fortunately Pence took his oath seriously enough that he saved us from what would have been complete chaos. Trump isn't big, bad, or scary. He is a revolting parasite feasting himself on the festering wounds in our country.

 

[Robert]

"Most Presidential" means most in favour of starting a war or two.

Perhaps in your head it means that but it's not what he meant. It was more about being able to utter coherent sentences and sounding the least like an unhinged idiot.