I can't believe the news today...

robert l. bentham said:
This is a societal health issue.
I say this from experience. I was clearly in the single digits when I recognized that something was fundamentally wrong with the world. Like the shooters, I had no language to articulate the emptiness that sat in my chest like a gaping hole, the sense that I was in the world completely alone."
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Yes - and no - but more.
I posted something many moons back - so far back that it's not around anymore, it seems, about how nations at war inevitably end up turning violence inwards. I probably said in on amiga.org around 2003 but the archive starts in 2004, or maybe it was somewhere else. It was a warning. It's not even that it was an insight that only I had. Protracted wars lead to social decay partly because of the bad example they set, partly because you end up incurring costs of injured and damaged returnees, partly because you waste vast resources on destroying other people's resources, partly because the machine of power has to be more and more repressive over time as the situation deteriorates, partly because the conversation becomes stilted, it becomes dangerous to speak out, the powerful suppress conversations that impugn their power, promote mythologies that uphold their power and maintain their power by maintaining a climate of fear and distrust in the population. Fear and distrust lead to "preppers", gun nuts, social isolation, lack of caring, even eventually inability to contract. The worse it gets the more the momentum is towards "every man for himself", and that works for the guys at the top - until the golden goose finally falls over dead. America is still a rich and powerful country. It could probably keep fighting its wars for another decade - but it can't win them. Rome ruled the world once, and then it didn't. Britain ruled the world once, and then it didn't. The US... this too shall pass.
 
cecilia said:
Gunman’s behavior indicates planning and control: Ex-FBI profiler
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All pretty obvious stuff. Of course it may just be wrong. It's really hard to know. A rational mind could just be arranging the evidence into a rational story. Whatever the full narrative it avoids the issue that suicide is not necessarily a rational thing to do and to do something horrific and spectacular before you kill yourself is also not productive. How does a person get to the point that they think that is a good idea? (How do they even get the idea at all?)
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
[quote="robert l. bentham] This is a societal health issue.
I say this from experience. I was clearly in the single digits when I recognized that something was fundamentally wrong with the world. Like the shooters, I had no language to articulate the emptiness that sat in my chest like a gaping hole, the sense that I was in the world completely alone."
Click to expand...
Yes - and no - but more.
I posted something many moons back - so far back that it's not around anymore, it seems, about how nations at war inevitably end up turning violence inwards. I probably said in on amiga.org around 2003 but the archive starts in 2004, or maybe it was somewhere else. It was a warning. It's not even that it was an insight that only I had. Protracted wars lead to social decay partly because of the bad example they set, partly because you end up incurring costs of injured and damaged returnees, partly because you waste vast resources on destroying other people's resources, partly because the machine of power has to be more and more repressive over time as the situation deteriorates, partly because the conversation becomes stilted, it becomes dangerous to speak out, the powerful suppress conversations that impugn their power, promote mythologies that uphold their power and maintain their power by maintaining a climate of fear and distrust in the population. Fear and distrust lead to "preppers", gun nuts, social isolation, lack of caring, even eventually inability to contract. The worse it gets the more the momentum is towards "every man for himself", and that works for the guys at the top - until the golden goose finally falls over dead. America is still a rich and powerful country. It could probably keep fighting its wars for another decade - but it can't win them. Rome ruled the world once, and then it didn't. Britain ruled the world once, and then it didn't. The US... this too shall pass.[/quote]

yeah... hey in the end we're all gonna get treated to armegeddon anyway, why not speed it up? spare our families from the suffering... i always saw revelations as sort of a possibility instead of a statement of fact... maybe the point is we just can't handle free will; and as such, since we all suck, we deserve to die... only thing i know for certain is that our society s crumbling around us and we seem either impotent or generally unwilling to do anything about it... sad times for all of us... and we should be ashamed... very, very ashamed of ourselves...
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
All pretty obvious stuff. Of course it may just be wrong. It's really hard to know. A rational mind could just be arranging the evidence into a rational story. Whatever the full narrative it avoids the issue that suicide is not necessarily a rational thing to do and to do something horrific and spectacular before you kill yourself is also not productive. How does a person get to the point that they think that is a good idea? (How do they even get the idea at all?)
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well one doesnt have to look too hard for rationalizations that going out in a "blaze of glory" or "hail of bullets" is by far a better way to die than all others. the first is a bon jovi song from 90's ish and the other, jack londons iron heel. teaching people that dying for the nobleness of cause is as old as the planet... the fun part comes in when people decide to shift the baselines for the value of their perceived causes... would you die for your right to collect cat whiskers? thatd seem stupid to me, but somebody else views it as that slippery slope where upon shortly after they come for your rights to pimp goats, take your guns... or deny you the ability to stand on the street corners yelling god hates fags... and sadly... they are both right and wrong... we don't teach our children to deal with moral conundrums or the duplicitous nature of life... and more recently we have relegated all moral authority to men with guns... cousin got schizophrenia and you can't deal with him? just don't honey... the men with guns from the government will come and fix this... we've, as a society, forgotten how to talk to each other to resolve our differences; its much easier to leave it for the cops to deal with. he'll get medication in prison, we just gotta wait for him to do something. funny thing is, most of those folks were depending on us to do something, something so basically simple it tears at the fabric of my soul... somebody needed only care more than they did. so today im gonna go see the twenty some odd children in my extended family and im going to tell them... you dont get to hurt others because you are hurting... all you have to do to not be alone is to ask someone, if it doesnt work, ask someone else. ask me. i wont bail on you. and then im going to continue to keep my promise to the whole herd of them. everyday if need be. i won't race for the cure anymore and then when the media has left and the fanfare is over; watch greedy pharmaceuticals scoop up pockets full of cash to poison people for the "greater good" erstwhile abandoning the needs of those afflicted... i was done with the idle non participation in life when i left the war, and i am committed to redoubling my efforts now. i am done with the turning away... done done done... and i hope you all are done with this bullshit nonsense as well... we cannot rely on a government that s powerless to stop our behaviours. if we all woke up tomorrow and decided our government must go, it would. harbor no doubts about that. it might be a struggle but we would win. caring for our children is a struggle too... one we must all engage in... we could stop this senseless destruction... we just need wont to...otherwise we are left to struggle anyway, with days like these... where there are no winners...
 
Or maybe this:


America is making war on itself!
 
excerpt:
"The gunman who slaughtered 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school may have snapped because his mother was planning to commit him to a psychiatric facility, according to a lifelong resident of the area who was familiar with the killer’s family and several of the victims’ families.
Adam Lanza, 20, targeted Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown after killing his mother early Friday because he believed she loved the school “more than she loved him,” said Joshua Flashman, 25, who grew up not far from where the shooting took place. Flashman, a U.S. Marine, is the son of a pastor at an area church where many of the victims’ families worship.
“From what I’ve been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed,” Flashman told FoxNews.com. “Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off.”"
http://patdollard.com/2012/12/fear-of-being-committed-by-mom-caused-shooter-to-snap/
 
guess fear from the cops and the courts made him do it... apparently the mother was trying to deal with his issues... god i hope this is a situation i am never faced with....
 
Newtown massacre: Pastor refutes son's account on Adam Lanza's motive

“I’ve just spoken to Josh,” Richard Flashman said in a statement tonight. “As the Fox News article indicates, the information Josh spoke to them about was hearsay and not confirmed. I suggest you do not run with the story. I am perplexed why Fox would run with it in the first place.”
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gee, color me surprised that faux news screwed up
 
eh... no offense but... he had an argumentative confrontation the day before with 3 of the 4 teachers he next day killed.. shot his own mother in the face four times(thats a revenge killing by the book standards anyway) then went to the psychology lady who was surely gonna be called as a witness.... dunno cecilia... 12 yr old told me last week... "sometimes rob simplest is best" this isnt really a hard tragedy to figure out in spite of media portrayal . it is what it is.... sad but true.... plenty o neglect blame to go around.. no matter which end of the string you grab... some of life .. extremely fawkin horrible.. the way we treat each other.. even worse
 
robert l. bentham said:
eh... no offense but... he had an argumentative confrontation the day before with 3 of the 4 teachers he next day killed.. shot his own mother in the face four times(thats a revenge killing by the book standards anyway) then went to the psychology lady who was surely gonna be called as a witness.... dunno cecilia... 12 yr old told me last week... "sometimes rob simplest is best" this isnt really a hard tragedy to figure out in spite of media portrayal . it is what it is.... sad but true.... plenty o neglect blame to go around.. no matter which end of the string you grab... some of life .. extremely fawkin horrible.. the way we treat each other.. even worse
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I'm not saying it's completely false. His Mother Apparently DID file papers for his future care.
And It's obvious even now that he was angry at his mother (derp)

I just want more facts before I reach a conclusion. It's the way I was trained.

yesterday when I read this on other sites the 1st thing I did was look to see where it had been reported. At THAT time, all sources lead to fox....Nothing from AP or other sources. THAT made me suspicious. Today, tomorrow and a month from now may be different, but yesterday my scepticism was tweaked
 
This is more about gun safety than about gun control, but it still demonstrates the power of the gun lobby and how even basic safety regulations do not apply to firearms the same way they apply to pretty much everything else. Wonder what ltstanfo has to say about this.

We Have the Technology To Make Safer Guns

A week before the Newtown massacre, Joseph Loughrey, a 44-year-old man in Mercer, Pa., was going to a gun store to sell some of his weapons. He had unloaded the magazine on his handgun, but he didn’t know there was a still a round in the chamber. When he set the gun down on the center console of his truck, it went off. In the back seat, Loughrey’s 7-year-old son, Craig, was buckling his safety belt. Craig was hit in the chest. He died on the scene.


The seat belt that Craig was buckling into was in Loughrey’s truck because it had been mandated, over the course of decades, by a series of laws, regulations, and lawsuits. A magazine safety would have prevented Loughrey’s gun from going off after he’d removed the magazine. A smart trigger would have prevented the gun from firing without Loughrey’s hand being on the grip. But Loughrey’s gun lacked both those safety devices, because nobody has ever forced gun makers to live up to the same basic safety requirements as other American companies.
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This is more about gun safety than about gun control
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BINGO

New York has VERY strict laws about guns - when you consider the Millions of people who live in this area we don't have that many people waving guns around. A possible problem is that there aren't certain safety laws that cross over all states. I DON'T think you should just walk into a walmart and buy a gun like it's a mars bar. I know my cousin (lives on Long Island) complained decades ago how NY had such strict laws about getting a gun that you had to wait a long time and go through hoops, etc...but I'd rather THAT than people just picking them up with no effort.


I'll never understand why people can just willy nilly have guns around their homes as if they are toys.

frankly, I think there should be sticker laws about drunk drivers......personally I'd like them shot on sight, but I suspect most people would find that a bit too much. :D
 
cecilia said:
Stupid people alert:


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...ewtown-happened-because-women-ran-the-school/

and

Newt ("I divorce wives when they get cancer and become inconvenient") Gingrich: Sandy Hook Shooting Tied To Godless Society
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Both stupid. The first link raises a point I never heard. The school did not have a single male employee? A school with a staff likely in the mid dozens and not a single male employee? I guess that is a conversation for another day. Simply having male employees would not likely have changed anything if that employee was unarmed. The manliest of men would still be taken down by a well placed bullet.
 
Red, the guy who wrote that about no male employees is a moron. There were at least two males working there that day.

The Stupidest Thing Anyone Has Written About Sandy Hook


Kevin Anzellotti, the head custodian at Sandy Hook, is a man. Theodore Varga, a fourth grade teacher, also possesses XY chromosomes. I just did the research Allen didn't do, and it took all of fourteen seconds.
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Glaucus said:
The Stupidest Thing Anyone Has Written About Sandy Hook
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Shockingly, this is the second-stupidest argument in Allen's column.
Remember United Flight 93 on 9/11. It was a “flight of heroes” because a bunch of guys on that plane did what they could with what they had.​
The terrorists on Flight 93, as I thought everybody knew, were armed with box cutters. The people who tackled them had a long time to plan their counterattack, ducking behind seats and whispering.
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Plus they all died.
 
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