Wait a tick... Amiga.org was sold? Again?

Wayne

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I know I failed as a former Amiga guy. My last login at AO was 10-13-13, but damn. Amiga.org was sold again and I never even heard about it?

I dropped by there this morning to ping everyone to show up here maybe and was actually thinking I'd build a new theme for the site out of pity, only to discover that Bill had sold the site to someone else?

I just wonder how much he got for it considering he was bringing in Google ad revenue (probably quite sizable) this whole time. I do see that the new owner has converted everything over to GBP for donations, but wow... I'm gobsmacked.

Wayne
 
I came back to the Amiga forums about a month ago. When I joined here, it was because it was so quiet over there and not many of the people I remember seemed to be around.
 
Not a single clue. I would have thought Bill might have mentioned it, but I'm guessing that in the last 4-5 years since I sold it, he probably made his money back from Google ads.
 
Not a single clue. I would have thought Bill might have mentioned it, but I'm guessing that in the last 4-5 years since I sold it, he probably made his money back from Google ads.

I highly doubt that. If the Google Adsense revenue was so substantial, I think Bill would have spent a lot less time promoting annual and life-time amiga.org subscriptions that blocked all site adverts for participating users.

Also, the new owners would have probably kept the ads on the site to offset the cost of the sale. I am fairly certain the ads generated very little revenue in relation to the server fees, etc.
 
I cant speak for Bill. Certain asshole members of AO got me banned from google ads for years by click bombing it right after the first few months.

That being said, I run google ads on a site getting about the same traffic that AO had at the time, and it's enough to pay for the hosting, software upgrades and a good bit of kit occasionally to boot.

If Bill wasn't having that level of success, it was due to the apathy or perhaps the drama behind the scenes.

All i can say its its sad to see Amiga.org completely devoid of ANY progress over the last few years. Then again, amigaworld's site layout hasn't changed either but still looks 100x better than AO currently, hence my pity towards the AO design...

(In self defense, its all my fault but i never claimed to be a graphics guy...)

I cant help to wonder what might have become of the community if i were still involved and prone to upgrade things every once in a while. I would imagine a far more "flat" and user friendly design now at a minimum. That software is horrible...

Wayne
 
its all my fault but i never claimed to be a graphics guy...

You're doing yourself a bit of a disservice there, Wayne.

I always liked the layout of AO, ans I like the logo too.
 
Well, I didn't want to stir anything up, but its a real shame. Do you remember my first post on here a week or so ago, when I said "We never had it so good when Wayne was webmaster.". I wasn't being a sycophant, I was actually being honest!

There are too many people in this community taking pot shots at anyone who, even with honest intentions, makes any money out of Amigas, and I don't think its appropriate to specifically criticise Amigakit or Trevor (no idea who Trevor is anyway?), but as a general principle I think the site having an owner with commercial interests is enough to turn me away.

One minor point though, the grinning guy on the right does make it look like some cult of personality. When I go to an Amiga site, I expect to see hardware pr0n ;), not some guy with a cheesy grin...
 
I was not the best webmaster at it. Just had the luxury of shepherding AO when the web really took off. Back in 1994, Kevin Hisel and CUCUG.org pretty much ruled the Amiga web. They even tried to register the Amiga.org domain, but luckily they thought of it about a month or so after I already had it registered. (back then, domain registration was a convoluted and expensive thing).

Where Amiga.org really took off is that I looked at CUCUG.org and saw the shortcomings where they were basically building nothing but a list of links to news items. No comments, no forums, no interaction. I tried to mimic that for a while, hand-writing links and searching for news, but then again, I had a lot more free time 20 years ago, so it all worked out.

Then, I stumbled across a piece of software called PHPNuke and the rest, as they say, is history.

In truth, in the later years that I was involved, I probably did more harm than good to the community. When Gateway bought the Amiga trademarks and promised to take over the world, my sole purpose in life became to support them, and -- if possible -- to get a job supporting the community through them. Gateway fell, McEwen and company rose up, and I continued to push the idea of a three-tiered community support platform (developers, users, user groups) with the idea of it becoming a full time job.

At the time, there were tens of thousands more Amiga users than today, and had Bill McEwen actually been able to pull off more than just building a mobile app company, it might have actually been something worth doing. The idea of being a part of that was seductive and incredibly enticing...

Alas, once Amiga Inc pretty much died in full view of the Amiga world, my obsession changed from helping to drive and support the Amiga community to one of cashing out. Google Ads, etcetera.

It was painful to sit and watch the Amiga community die on the vine like so many stale grapes but then Genesi came around, promising once again, to save the community (which was still my passion), and to give us a computing platform we could actually use. We all know how that turned out, both for the community, and for me...

Getting in bed with Bill Buck (proverbially speaking) was my worst mistake, and did more damage to the Amiga community (and to AO) than I could have imagined. He ripped me off, still owes me over 10k, and helped me -- at least obliquely -- to lose my marriage... Well, in sequence, my mom died, Buck ripped me off for 10k, then she left, but that's splitting hairs.

Once that was done, I really didn't care any more, and in the end, the only thing keeping Amiga.org alive were the donations and the advertising revenue, so really, I count my experience with Amiga.org as a failure, because I failed the community, and I really believe I'm responsible for fostering the current "rabid" "attack everyone" mentality that killed the community...

I was incredibly glad when Bill P stepped up, because I thought he might have actually done something to change things for the better. Fresh blood and all that. Unfortunately all we ever did was sit and let it continue on Autopilot for five years, and nothing short of a complete reboot can save it now. Trouble is, you can't reboot because the Amiga is stuck on a 10-year-old HTML 3 standard and you'd have the 1% of users who use Amigas screaming for more blood, so I really feel for the new owners.

Wayne
 
I really believe I'm responsible for fostering the current "rabid" "attack everyone" mentality that killed the community

Again, unnecessarily harsh in my opinion. There's plenty enough blame to go around for that silly period.

Interesting post though, thanks.
 
Again, unnecessarily harsh in my opinion. There's plenty enough blame to go around for that silly period.

Interesting post though, thanks.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to take total blame for it. The internet doesn't need my help at encouring stupidity. I'm Just admitting that my actions and later my apathy helped to fan the flames..
 
I was incredibly glad when Bill P stepped up, because I thought he might have actually done something to change things for the better. Fresh blood and all that. Unfortunately all we ever did was sit and let it continue on Autopilot for five years, and nothing short of a complete reboot can save it now. Trouble is, you can't reboot because the Amiga is stuck on a 10-year-old HTML 3 standard and you'd have the 1% of users who use Amigas screaming for more blood, so I really feel for the new owners.

amiga.org has not been compatible with old HTML3 web browsers for a number of years now. PowerPC users have access to the Odyssey Web Browser (http://power2people.org/projects/odyssey/), which is based on the latest version of Webkit (as used by Apple Safari) and supports HTML5. (AROS users have access to an older web browser for now but it fully supports CSS2 at least.)

As for Bill P, if he had just done nothing, as you say, I think that fewer people may have left. Using amiga.org, which was temporarily shut down, to air his frustrations about a failed business relationship with the Pagestream author rubbed quite a number of people the wrong way, for instance. There were a number of events like this.
 
Welp, I knew nothing about that. That's why I'm out of touch really...

I do think that it's time Amiga.org had a reboot.. Like cucug.org all those years ago, I just see so much lacking with the beast I created... If there was any use, and if I had a domain, I'd start another AMiga site myself, but my motivation probably wouldn't be in the right place...
 
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to take total blame for it. The internet doesn't need my help at encouring stupidity. I'm Just admitting that my actions and later my apathy helped to fan the flames..

As someone who regularly visited cucug.org before Amiga.org... I remember the whole ride, too. And, for what it's worth, I think you did the best job you could. You were honest with the community and had the voice of truth and experience.

Once that was done, I really didn't care any more, and in the end, the only thing keeping Amiga.org alive were the donations and the advertising revenue, so really, I count my experience with Amiga.org as a failure, because I failed the community, and I really believe I'm responsible for fostering the current "rabid" "attack everyone" mentality that killed the community...

While there is absolutely no argument that the community failed... I don't think you failed the community. Your journey ultimately represented and mirrored the thoughts and feelings of the Amiga community quite accurately. I don't think there's anyone around from that time who didn't get ripped off by at least one of these shyster companies. We were all screwed over. And we were mad about it. And we were still in disbelief that the Amiga, itself could actually fail, despite once having a decades lead on many technologies.
 
Welp, I knew nothing about that. That's why I'm out of touch really...
I like BillP. He owned the website and I do not blame him for doing what he felt was right. That said, if you would like to understand why the website lost visitors, it would be a mistake to not consider some of Bill´s actions (or inactions - some prominent members left because it was not explained who exactly owned the website and all user-generated content).

I do think that it's time Amiga.org had a reboot.. Like cucug.org all those years ago, I just see so much lacking with the beast I created... If there was any use, and if I had a domain, I'd start another AMiga site myself, but my motivation probably wouldn't be in the right place...
The main problem I see is fragmentation. The community is not exactly growing, yet the amount of Amiga forums seems to go up, not down. For outsiders, it is rather painful to figure out where to find information creating unnecessary barriers of entry for potential new users (which are rare to find in the first place).
 
- some prominent members left because it was not explained who exactly owned the website and all user-generated content).

.. and again, I take partial blame for that, but I was under legal restriction from discussing what I knew of the sale/purchase. It was all up to Bill to explain if he wanted to.

For the record, I like Bill P as well.

The main problem I see is fragmentation.
I can agree, with caveats. The reason Amiga forums keep springing up is the same reason AO sprang up to begin with. Someone saw a need, or wanted something that Amiga.org wasn't providing. Either that, or I wasn't providing it in the way they wanted, so CUCUG begat Amiga.org. Amiga.org begat Amigaworld, and so on. Ego also plays a part when you look at a site and say "I can do better".

In 1994, my ego on getting the domain name (a major coup) was pretty damned huge. The guy who runs Amigaworld's ego must have been equally big when his site started taking off and killing Amiga.org. Even Dave's Morphzone was pretty much an ego-trip for him, though on a smaller scale since he was pretty much directed (and still may be) by Bill "fuckeveryoneover" Buck..

Wayne
 
The guy who runs Amigaworld's ego must have been equally big when his site started taking off and killing Amiga.org. Even Dave's Morphzone was pretty much an ego-trip for him, though on a smaller scale since he was pretty much directed (and still may be) by Bill "fuckeveryoneover" Buck..
Dave has not been involved for many years. Apparently, he still contributes articles to Kermit´s GadgetNutz but only about once a year.

As for MorphZone, even though there are no ads and no requests for donations, it is an independent website that is neither financed nor controlled by any commercial entity.
 
Dave has not been involved for many years. Apparently, he still contributes articles to Kermit´s GadgetNutz but only about once a year.

As for MorphZone, even though there are no ads and no requests for donations, it is an independent website that is neither financed nor controlled by any commercial entity.
Sadly, I haven't spoken to Dave personally in a few years. Didn't mean to speak for him. I just knew that at one point, even post getting screwed over by Buck, he was still fervently defending him, so conclusions were easy to draw.

Wayne
 
some prominent members left because it was not explained who exactly owned the website and all user-generated content).

For the record, anyone who posts anything publicly on a Web site owned by someone else, then expects that they own the content they just gave to the universe is a bit naive. It doesn't matter what the rules say, or what is declared in legalese.

Once it's out there, it's out there. Just ask Jennifer Lawrence. (Not supporting the hacker side of that deal, I'm just saying that the horse is out of the barn, the barn's on fire, closing the door is moot)...

I can't -- obviously -- speak for what Bill did, or did not do when he sold it to whomever Trevor happens to be, but I faced a lot of the same whining and argument when I originally sold Amiga.org to BillP. People climbing out of the woodwork to claim that I had no right to sell the site at all and so-forth.


The main problem I see is fragmentation. The community is not exactly growing, yet the amount of Amiga forums seems to go up, not down. For outsiders, it is rather painful to figure out where to find information creating unnecessary barriers of entry for potential new users (which are rare to find in the first place).[/QUOTE]
 
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