Massive stock market crash, NASDAQ down 5% in one day

[FluffyMcDeath]

Sure the US attack for Oil, but I don't think it the Euro itself. My guess is that man may have a major influence in the oil market. Well either way, I don't think US invaded and executed because of Euro. That is too simple thinking. It got to be much more than that.

It's a confluence of interests. There is no emperor. Oil (but oil per se but the ability to control oil which is much more important), the petro-dollar (which is tied up in oil control but has its own set of vested interests), and territorial control (which is also tied up in oil control as it is the oil producing regions that the US and everybody else wants a presence in).

Riding along with that are the various industrial interests like KBR and Exxon etc who want to pick at the corpses or tap into the cash stream and there are the financial interests that always do well funding weapons and wars at interest.

However, selling in Euros was a big part of the reason (and the reason that Saddam and others have sold in currencies other than the dollar is precisely to hurt the US dollar and reduce the ability of the US to fund its massive military, but without appearing as aggressors).

 

[Robert]

Not that I wouldn't mind seeing him executed, mind you.

weird.

 

[the_leander]

I took Leander's comment to mean Saddam too. The commodity being oil. He was moving away from trading in US$ to other currencies, particularly the Euro.

Precisely.

I seem to recall also a botched CIA coup against Chavez for much the same reason.

 

[cybereye]

I agree with you but not this.

However, selling in Euros was a big part of the reason (and the reason that Saddam and others have sold in currencies other than the dollar is precisely to hurt the US dollar and reduce the ability of the US to fund its massive military, but without appearing as aggressors).

Currency is not the major influence of controlling power as some people think. The whole globe is fiat money. Commodity is the most controlling power and I would worry more on the China side. Currency can always move around to another currency because there is always a fool that willing to take that risk. Commodities have limited supplies that can make something useful for good and evil and something that can never be lost.

 

[the_leander]

Currency is not the major influence of controlling power as some people think.

Funny, when the global reserve changed from Sterling to USD it had the effect of tanking our economy for a generation.

What makes you think it'd do anything less to you? And by switching trade to Euros whilst not as dramatic, would have a similar consequence - countries would get rid of their reserves of USD in favour of whatever replaced it as a trading currency.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Currency is not the major influence of controlling power as some people think. The whole globe is fiat money. Commodity is the most controlling power and I would worry more on the China side. Currency can always move around to another currency because there is always a fool that willing to take that risk. Commodities have limited supplies that can make something useful for good and evil and something that can never be lost.

The US dollar is a commodity backed currency. It is backed by oil. While it is the only currency that can be traded for oil (by "agreement" with the oil trading nations and control over the two big bourses, NYMEX and ICE) then countries that need oil (all of them) must gain USD to do so which means that they must sell stuff to the US at whatever price the US dictates. It is like a massive tax on the empire but it is hidden. If a country could buy oil in another currency then the US would be in competition with the other currency which immediately destroys its monopoly and reduces buying power.

Saddam sold in Euros and he is gone. Chavez was going to and he was almost taken out by a US backed coup. Iran has been talking about it for years and they are definitely on the US radar but they've been playing some serious cat and mouse - and have had Russian help probably and likely Chinese as well because those two guys don't want the US to have the entire region.

In Libya, Muammar Gaddafi was looking to trade oil for gold.

 

[faethor]

Stocks up 429 points -- "Buying accelerated into the close and the S&P 500 posted its best day in more than two years, following a drop of nearly 17 percent over the past weeks."

 

[redrumloa]

Stocks up 429 points -- "Buying accelerated into the close and the S&P 500 posted its best day in more than two years, following a drop of nearly 17 percent over the past weeks."

Looking at the tape after the close stinks of PPT (Plunge Protection Team). Then again it could be a purely technical bounce, but I doubt it. Either way I seriously doubt the trend will be anything but down over the coming weeks and months. I'd love to be wrong on this.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Looking at the tape after the close stinks of PPT (Plunge Protection Team).

It does look a bit dodgy or it could be a short squeeze as some big players try to cover their shorts.

 

[cybereye]

Funny, when the global reserve changed from Sterling to USD it had the effect of tanking our economy for a generation.

What makes you think it'd do anything less to you? And by switching trade to Euros whilst not as dramatic, would have a similar consequence - countries would get rid of their reserves of USD in favour of whatever replaced it as a trading currency.

I am not sure what the question that you are asking. What do you mean do anything less to me? I don't trust any fiat money that backup by nothing and trust a government that is truthfully to promises to back up.

 

[cybereye]

The US dollar is a commodity backed currency. It is backed by oil. While it is the only currency that can be traded for oil (by "agreement" with the oil trading nations and control over the two big bourses, NYMEX and ICE) then countries that need oil (all of them) must gain USD to do so which means that they must sell stuff to the US at whatever price the US dictates. It is like a massive tax on the empire but it is hidden. If a country could buy oil in another currency then the US would be in competition with the other currency which immediately destroys its monopoly and reduces buying power.

Sorry, the US dollar is backed by "Federal Reserve Note" aka IOU another word "debit". It the bankers that made an agreement in oil trading nations to borrow the money to build the infrastructure. Now oil trading nations have to pay back with interest in USD. Sure sell the oil to the US and get more USD to pay back to the bank. This is where the bankers say "Backed by oil". The truth is at this point. The bank's money is not backed by oil anymore. It backed by energy. Energy is not just oil, nuke, and electric; it is labor, food and water as Energy.

Saddam sold in Euros and he is gone. Chavez was going to and he was almost taken out by a US backed coup. Iran has been talking about it for years and they are definitely on the US radar but they've been playing some serious cat and mouse - and have had Russian help probably and likely Chinese as well because those two guys don't want the US to have the entire region. In Libya, Muammar Gaddafi was looking to trade oil for gold.

There is not that many trusted and liquid in exchange for oil. There is a theory about gold for oil, and not many will sell the gold for oil because oil cannot be reuse. Oil is an energy that can only be use once. Chavez almost went broke because he could not get anything for his country without the USD. US is the biggest customer for oil.

 

[cybereye]

Looking at the tape after the close stinks of PPT (Plunge Protection Team). Then again it could be a purely technical bounce, but I doubt it. Either way I seriously doubt the trend will be anything but down over the coming weeks and months. I'd love to be wrong on this.

I don't see that much down over the comming weeks and months and I don't know what your view of a trend either. Ask me next week for my view in bearish. I can see you complain about goldman sachs told S&P about "AA" rate and short the market and now covering it short. My crazy guess is that many sold the the us treasury for stock.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Sorry, the US dollar is backed by "Federal Reserve Note" aka IOU another word ...

Once upon a time gold was backed by the commodity gold but the federal reserve ended redemption for gold. However, because of an agreement with the oil producers it became a currency backed by oil because it was the only currency redeemable for oil. You seem to have difficulty comprehending this very important fact but I can't help you much by merely repeating it. You have to consider it on your own. If you need dollars for oil and you need oil then you need dollars. That gives dollars a market and a value. That value is maintained by its monopoly. It's a very straightforward arrangement (backed by military force). Once it was redeemable for gold but then it became THE ONLY THING redeemable for oil. It is no long the only oil currency.

 

[redrumloa]

Looking at the tape after the close stinks of PPT (Plunge Protection Team). Then again it could be a purely technical bounce, but I doubt it. Either way I seriously doubt the trend will be anything but down over the coming weeks and months. I'd love to be wrong on this.

That didn't take long. Stocks have already given up all of yesterday's gain. This drop has the potential to go from ugly to historic real quick...

 

[Dammy]

So, you have no problem using high power indiscriminate ordnance with a large collateral footprint to eliminate one person. And you wonder why some people don't like the US?

LGBs are discriminate ordinance, it goes right where the laser is pointing to. Yes, there indeed might be collateral damage but that is expected and accepted when nations go to war. His bombings were just that. Or would a Hamas style car bomb like their handy work in Lebanon be more acceptable then a LGB? I would be willing to bet a car bomb would kill more civilians since it would have to be in some public area vs a LGB while he is stationary at one of his bunkers. Pity the flack was hitting in the wrong location and made the F111 swerve enough to bounce the laser away his house back in the 80s.

People not liking the US, well that's tough. Obama election was supposed to make the rest of the world like us, and it hasn't. The day is coming when America won't be there, but China will. Behold, the dragon awakens: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9e214cd05d006bc55e2b5fc33bdea0f3.f81&show_article=1

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Yes, there indeed might be collateral damage but that is expected and accepted when nations go to war.

Collateral damage is expected but not "accepted" - unless it's collateral damage caused by the US. Even completely on target with no civilian casualties like helicopter shoot downs and the derisively labeled IEDs don't seem to be "acceptable".

 

[cybereye]

Once upon a time gold was backed by the commodity gold but the federal reserve ended redemption for gold.

yeah, something we can agree.

However, because of an agreement with the oil producers it became a currency backed by oil because it was the only currency redeemable for oil. You seem to have difficulty comprehending this very important fact but I can't help you much by merely repeating it. You have to consider it on your own. If you need dollars for oil and you need oil then you need dollars. That gives dollars a market and a value. That value is maintained by its monopoly. It's a very straightforward arrangement (backed by military force). Once it was redeemable for gold but then it became THE ONLY THING redeemable for oil. It is no long the only oil currency.

I disagree about your view on my difficulty comprehending this very important fact. Some people believe theory or set of data as fact. Sorry, theory is not fact, but an idea that have not attestation the idea's prediction. What would happen to the fiat money once oil is dry up? Would the fiat money crash, go find another commodity, or a country with most food, water, cheap labor? I could say fiat money is backed by faith and energy from the people on earth. The whole globe is backed fiat money and USD is a small part of that globe fiat money. I am no fool that USD is not most power controlling. There is a theory that china has the control of the USD and not many know. I can’t proof it, but in the back of my mind it could be true or not. There is an old saying, “The one with the richest make the golden rule”. That has been proof that is not true. What may be true is “The one with the golden rule is the richest.” Fiat money does not make the rule. Sure attack by force will make the rule and many other ways to make a rule.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

I disagree about your view on my difficulty comprehending this very important fact.

So you understand that the USD derives considerable value from being the worlds oil currency and that it acts as a proxy for oil itself? Or do you simply reject that the dollar has a virtual monopoly in oil trades. (The situation has started to change in the last few years and is likely to accelerate - will this have any effect on the USD?)

What would happen to the fiat money once oil is dry up?

What happens when a currency has no backing? Then it has to find something to back it or it has no worth. If you have a coupon for a store that has no stock it is worthless. The USD is fiat but backed by oil. The US doesn't own any commodity manufacture any thing that could replace it for which they could demand payment in only dollars. If you can chose to buy oil in any currency then you don't NEED USD and that will mean less buyers and that will mean devaluation.

"The one with the richest make the golden rule".

In English we say : "The one with the gold makes the rules" which, thanks to the ambiguities of English says both that the person who makes the rules has the gold and the person with the gold is the rule maker.

Basically, if you have wealth you can use it to influence the rules of the game such that you acquire more wealth and make it harder for the other people to get it back from you.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Looking at the tape after the close stinks of PPT (Plunge Protection Team).

No sign of the PPT today.
Dow closes at 10,719.94 : -519.83 (-4.62%)

 

[cybereye]

So you understand that the USD derives considerable value from being the worlds oil currency and that it acts as a proxy for oil itself? Or do you simply reject that the dollar has a virtual monopoly in oil trades.

I understand why bankers say “backed by oil”, but it not true. It a theory that has not shows proof. I understand global fiat money is derives considerable value from faith and energy from the people on earth. People need energy to eat and pay Euros same for gas as well. Companies that buy oil have no problem to convert Euros dollars to USD to get oil cause the global fiat money. Sure people that work for Euros may have to work harder to get gas. Look how the Saudis buy more brand new equipment every year, from both America and Euro. Some investors use gold/oil ratio to get a better idea of value than global currency. So global fiat money backed by faith and energy from the people on earth.

(The situation has started to change in the last few years and is likely to accelerate - will this have any effect on the USD?)

few years?, The USD started to change when the USD got off by the commodity gold. USD is now backed by faith and energy from the people on earth.

What happens when a currency has no backing? Then it has to find something to back it or it has no worth. The USD is fiat but backed by oil. The US doesn't own any commodity manufacture any thing that could replace it for which they could demand payment in only dollars. If you can chose to buy oil in any currency then you don't NEED USD and that will mean less buyers and that will mean devaluation.

So in your view it has to be backed by commodity. You believe it is backed by oil. Good luck trying to ask Federal Reserve that you want to take USD for oil. The bank will exchange with other fiat money as Euros because it Fiat money. I believe it backed by faith and energy from the people on earth. US have the energy of services while China has the energy of manufacture. Those two is just a small factor of the pie of energy. I don’t mind paid other currency for oil, but other who strongly believes the USD is the gold standard.

In English we say : "The one with the gold makes the rules"

That is what I was trying to say and it doesn’t work. The correct way should says “The one get the golden rule make the gold.” The one make the law is more power than wealth. So wealth itself does not make the rule. There is richest man on earth that unable to make the rule. Another saying is "There is no sword to be feared more than the learned pen.” As it pointed out that it not wealth that make the rule, but a person who write the laws make the rule. Another point is that Adolf Hitler while imprisoned wrote the book call Mein Kampf and now become worship and a dictator.