The simple truth about the upcoming election is this...

[Wayne]

The simple truth about the upcoming election is this...

I'm sick of it. We in the U.S. are about to be faced with a choice between a loudmouthed blowhard (Trump) who -- let's face it -- probably isn't fit for the job, or an unindicted and unapologetic felon with no real accomplishments who actively and demonstrably believes she's above the law (Clinton)...

I get that Trump's an asshole. I get that he's a foulmouthed jerk. The whole "rape" thing however is 100% made up bullshit by the liberal media, so I won't go after him for that... I have no real evidence of that except that it seems almost all of the accusatory are Hillary's friends, campaign donors etc. It's interesting that in 30 years, no one has brought up anything like it until now.

I will say that it's also interesting how the media is suddenly willing to overlook Bill Clinton's documented cases of perjury, the following impeachment, and his rabid history of sexual assault, along with Hillary's active and documented history and stance in intimidating his victims...

That being said, for the life of me, I know it's a shit choice. Asshole or felon, but I don't understand how a single person in this country could even remotely consider electing Clinton, who has actively sold out America and cost American lives to line her pockets at every opportunity.

After all this time, and all my demonstration of facts in every way, I feel like I'm banging my head against the proverbial wall when it comes to dealing with some of the leftist liberal fucktards on Facebook... I seriously mean it when I say that I honestly believe Hillary could walk out in the middle of a crowded street and shoot an openly-gay baby seal in the head with a fully automatic weapon on live television and the fucktards who support Her Majesty would simply make excuses, suggest it's Trump's fault, or blame the gun.

Yeah folks, we're going to end up with an untrustworthy felon for a President because of all the liberal fucktards, and I really have no idea how this country is going to survive the next eight years...

// rant over -- though I really doubt it...

 

[redrumloa]

Pop culture and limited exposure to liberal media outlets are the only sources of information to these people. The term "low information crowd" is completely true. This is who you are arguing with.

 

[JoBBo]

I'm sick of it. We in the U.S. are about to be faced with a choice between a loudmouthed blowhard (Trump) who -- let's face it -- probably isn't fit for the job, or an unindicted and unapologetic felon with no real accomplishments who actively and demonstrably believes she's above the law (Clinton)...

Do you honestly believe that "billionaire" Donald Trump is a by-the-book guy who does not think he is above the law?

The whole "rape" thing however is 100% made up bullshit by the liberal media, so I won't go after him for that... I have no real evidence of that except that it seems almost all of the accusatory are Hillary's friends, campaign donors etc. It's interesting that in 30 years, no one has brought up anything like it until now.

I have not read anywhere that he "raped" anybody. He has been accused of 'harassing' women, which is different.

More importantly, "The Donald" himself opened this particular pandora's box when he first attacked Clinton by bringing up past accusations against her husband. This made him vulnerable in this area. When he then proceeded to state during a televised debate watched by tens of millions of people that he may have been caught talking inappropriately about women but would never act the way he talked, I knew he had set up his own trap and it was just a matter of time before he would fall in it.

 

[redrumloa]

More importantly, "The Donald" himself opened this particular pandora's box when he first attacked Clinton by bringing up past accusations against her husband. This made him vulnerable in this area. When he then proceeded to state during a televised debate watched by tens of millions of people that he may have been caught talking inappropriately about women but would never act the way he talked, I knew he had set up his own trap and it was just a matter of time before he would fall in it.

You have it backwards. In the first debate Trump didn't bring up accusations about Hildabeast's husband. At the 11th hour before the 2nd debate Team Hillary dropped their "October Surprise" with the release of the Trump tape. That was the reason the gloves came off for Trump in the 2nd debate.

 

[ilwrath]

Do you honestly believe that "billionaire" Donald Trump is a by-the-book guy who does not think he is above the law?

Well, certainly Trump isn't into caring much about the spirit of the law. He has flat out admitted to using loopholes and profiting through underhanded methods. He's got the money to bend any law any direction he wants. And it is completely foolish to think he hasn't done it.

But what he hasn't done is completely discard the letter of the law, lie about it, have those statements proven to be lies, modify them, have those proven to be lies too, and still somehow get the FBI to decide that prosecution isn't warranted. Even though her actions leaked classified information.

I just can't get over that. Even though all of the Hillary scandals are pretty typical for anyone elected at that level, it all just puts the corruption so blatantly in your face. It is simply too much to stomach. I think I'd quite literally vomit in the voting booth if I had to do it. I only wish that was an exaggeration.

The only remaining question is if I vote for an asshole wild card (Trump) or a principled, if slightly daffy outsider (Stein).

 

[redrumloa]

Well, certainly Trump isn't into caring much about the spirit of the law. He has flat out admitted to using loopholes and profiting through underhanded methods. He's got the money to bend any law any direction he wants. And it is completely foolish to think he hasn't done it.

Carried Interest isn't a "loop hole", but rather a direct part of the tax code. You can argue whether it should be there or not as it mostly benefits the wealthy, but there is noting unethical or outside any spirit of law.

 

[JoBBo]

You have it backwards.

He brought up Gennifer Flowers on his Twitter feed before the first debate had been held. This was weeks before the recording of him and Bush was leaked.

In the first debate Trump didn't bring up accusations about Hildabeast's husband.

I did not claim he did. I watched it and saw how he congratulated himself during the debate for not bringing up certain things that he originally was going to bring up. One day after the first debate, he then doubled down: "I'm really happy I was able to hold back on the indiscretions in respect to Bill Clinton. Because I have a lot of respect for Chelsea Clinton." (Source)

When asked by reporters what he had wanted to say, he answered: ""Maybe I'll tell you at the next debate." (Again, this was on September 26, two weeks before the second debate.)

At the 11th hour before the 2nd debate Team Hillary dropped their "October Surprise" with the release of the Trump tape. That was the reason the gloves came off for Trump in the 2nd debate.

See above...

 

[metalman]

After all this time, and all my demonstration of facts in every way, I feel like I'm banging my head against the proverbial wall when it comes to dealing with some of the leftist liberal fucktards on Facebook... I seriously mean it when I say that I honestly believe Hillary could walk out in the middle of a crowded street and shoot an openly-gay baby seal in the head with a fully automatic weapon on live television and the fucktards who support Her Majesty would simply make excuses, suggest it's Trump's fault, or blame the gun.

No one is persuaded by debate, facts don't matter, detailed policy positions don't matter. Humans are irrational and are influenced by many things…except facts. Facts are useless for persuasion when emotions are involved. ( read Scott Adams Blog )

Elections are won on emotion. Facts are useful when governing, but during an election, facts are just background noise.

think back to recent elections, what were the "issues"?
dog on roof of car, binder full of women, ...

Democrats are very good at triggering emotions that Republicans are cold, uncaring, evil

Democrats use "emotional issues" to win elections

How did Trump win the Republican nomination, he ignored facts and policy positions and used "sales persuasion"

Right now the issues of the election are "30 years ago serial harasser" vs "a career political Grifter"

Wikileaks are confirming the fact of "political Grifter"

I'm voting for the sales guy

 

[Argo]

Carried Interest isn't a "loop hole", but rather a direct part of the tax code. You can argue whether it should be there or not as it mostly benefits the wealthy, but there is noting unethical or outside any spirit of law.

Everything about Carried Interest and carrying losses forward against future tax liability that Trump has talked about is basic finance. I learned this in college while taking Accounting I and II.

 

[Wayne]

Do you honestly believe that "billionaire" Donald Trump is a by-the-book guy who does not think he is above the law?

I don't know that I believe anything, but I don't believe that using tax code within the legal boundaries is some sort of evil thing. As a small business owner, I have to scramble every single year trying to optimize my tax deductions. He did the very same thing, only on a much larger scale. Clinton however has been documented time and time again to be a short-tempered liar who has (quite literally) peddled political influence in exchange for cash. She's also mishandled classified information in violation of Federal Law, allowing foreign governments and people without clearances to access it... For this alone, she should be in a Federal Penitentiary. That being said, she's connected, and knows where all the skeletons are buried, so she's more protected than the average mafia member...

I have not read anywhere that he "raped" anybody. He has been accused of 'harassing' women, which is different.

The term being bandied about is "sexually harrassed", which in the American vernacular seems to equate to "raped"... The problem I have is that if any of this were true, the women stepping forward would have done so before now, and without the attributable influence of Her Majesty (in every instance)

She's a bad egg. Plain and simple. Documented. She's either incompetent (classified stuff) or worse, negligent (Benghazi). Either way, she's corrupt to the core (the Clinton Foundation "Pay for Play" scam where she sold political influence to the highest bidder).

Trump on the other hand *might* be one of those eggs you have to worry about, but he's not yet stinking up the joint outside of HRC saying "do you smell something?" and planting false ideas in everyone's head.

There are simply too many documented corruption scandals around her to look the other way...

 

[Robert]

The problem I have is that if any of this were true, the women stepping forward would have done so before now...

I keep reading this but just don't buy it.

The way I saw it was:
1. Old recording surfaces of Trump behaving in a way that won't surprise anyone who has been paying attention to him over the years.
2. In this recording he claims he can grab women "by the pussy" because he is "a star".
3. He apologises and claims it was just him telling lies to impress other men and none of it actually happened.
4. Some women claim he is lying about it never having happened and call him out.

Now, I personally know of several women who have received the type of unwanted attention similar to what Trump boasts about and, as far as I know, none of them have ever reported it to police, mainly because they didn't deem it serious enough.
OTOH, had the "grabber" subsequently appeared on national telly claiming he would never do such a thing, they might well have something to say about it.

Does this mean they are all genuine? Of course not and there will always be band-wagon jumpers.
It's also possible that they could indeed *all* be opportunist liars but the idea that he has never behaved in the way he boasts about is a bit of a stretch for me.

Ask yourself this: when you listen to Trump saying what he said, are you really convinced that he would never behave in such a way because he is obviously a much nicer person than that?
If you can honestly answer yes to that question, I don't think you've been paying enough attention to him.

 

[metalman]

I keep reading this but just don't buy it.

The way I saw it was:
1. Old recording surfaces of Trump behaving in a way that won't surprise anyone who has been paying attention to him over the years.
2. In this recording he claims he can grab women "by the pussy" because he is "a star".
3. He apologises and claims it was all just "locker room talk" and none of it actually happened.
4. Some women claim he is lying about it never having happened and call him out.

I doubt any of the harassment allegations are true

There is a subculture of men called "pickup artists" who study psychologically how to pick up women

Trump is what they would call a "natural" , tall, good looking, wealthy, alpha, confident, persuasive

Women WANTED his attention

go back 30 years and look at pictures of the women he was dating, all were 10's, models, actresses, beauty pageant winners

Now look at pictures of his accusers who 30 years later, and 30 days before the election are saying they were harassed, they are NOT 10's
and there are many, many women who knew him, worked for him, who say he was always a perfect gentleman

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784610401061330945

 

[metalman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784551973911605248

 

[metalman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/784886955138027520

 

[Robert]

I doubt any of the harassment allegations are true

Perhaps.
My point was that the length of time which has passed between them coming forward does not disprove their claims, yet I keep reading it as though it were some sort of silver bullet.
It isn't.
You only have to look at the convictions from operation Yew Tree to see that.

 

[metalman]

Perhaps.
My point was that the length of time which has passed between them coming forward does not disprove their claims, yet I keep reading it as though it were some sort of silver bullet.
It isn't.
You only have to look at the convictions from operation Yew Tree to see that.

If it were true, there would be some pattern, more victims coming forward, eg Bill Cosby

 

[Wayne]

Again, I'm not trying to defend the fact that Trump can be a bit of a dog when it comes to women. Hell, let's be honest. If I had a billion dollars, I'd be dating supermodels too (I'm sure), but the simple fact is that between the Liberal Media, the Elite, and the idiots out there, we have a choice in this election.

Either we get an Asshole, or an unindicted felon. Those are our only two real choices, and anything other than that, say Johnson, Stein, not voting, etc just works to get either the Asshole or felon actively elected.

Point of fact, any vote not cast against what you see as the worst candidate (whichever that is) only works in their favor by removing one vote from the pool to stand against it.

Again, Idiot or criminal. Choose wisely.

 

[Robert]

If it were true, there would be some pattern, more victims coming forward, eg Bill Cosby

Another non sequitur.
If it were true that Trump had behaved like this once, there would be one victim.
Twice, two victims.

I'm not saying the allegations are true.
I'm saying that some of the arguments employed to refute the allegations are rather flimsy.
"Should be more victims" and "Would've come forward sooner" are two examples of this.

 

[Robert]

Those are our only two real choices, and anything other than that, say Johnson, Stein, not voting, etc just works to get either the Asshole or felon actively elected.

Indeed. I'm not arguing with that.

 

[Wayne]

I'm not saying the allegations are true.
I'm saying that some of the arguments employed to refute the allegations are rather flimsy.
"Should be more victims" and "Would've come forward sooner" are two examples of this.

Again, *I* have no idea, but the tell for me is that almost -- to the woman -- each of these women accusing Trump of misdeeds over 30 years ago have been tied directly to Hillary Clinton, or to her campaign in some way (either by donations or by volunteering, etc)