Need some clarification regarding candidates, the election, and well, everything...

[Wayne]

Ok, so help me out here.

As Americans, we're stuck with a two-party dominated political system.

Out of 44 Presidents, 34 were either Democrat or Republican. 4 (Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, and John Quincy Adams) were members of the "Democratic Republican" party which hasn't existed for 187 years, and the rest were members of parties which died out long before that. Only one "unaffiliated" candidate has ever been elected President of the United States, and that was George Washington himself.

So, historically speaking, there has never been an "Independent", or third-party candidate elected as POTUS. (source).

Thus ends the lesson.

Here in 2016, the American people -- by-in-large the lower and middle classes -- are angry. Frustrated with a political system they believe is corrupt, has failed them, and actively works against them in the name of shareholders and the rich.

Here's where I get lost.

To combat them this election cycle, one side (and the media) pretty much nominates a woman who is the very absolute epitome of corrupt (if not criminal) Washington politics. The other side, in their frustration, allows a man rise to contention whose only qualification is as a loud-mouthed reality-TV host.

I'm not bringing Bernie into this, because we've already been told that the Democrats (and their "superdelegates") won't allow him to get the nomination. I also leave out Cruz, because frankly he has only a tiny snowball's chance in hell of getting the Republican nomination outside of the Convention.

So.. Given that we've already been told by the media that Hillary *will* be the Democratic candidate (the American people apparently have no say in the matter) the only remaining wildcard is at the pending Republican convention where the rich and powerful might simply discard Trump and <insert their candidate here> despite the American public's outcry...

Don't get me wrong here. Even the idea of a Trump presidency scares the living {bleep} out of me, but I still can't vote for a person (Hillary) that I consider corrupt and already engulfed in scandal and felony...

I guess I'm actually hoping that the Republican party pulls their collective thumbs out of their collective asses and provides us with a realistic candidate, but at this point, I'm not sure who that might be as everyone in the system who might be nominated already qualifies as one of the same corrupt Washington elite.

Is this really what we've come to? A real life stage play of the movie "Idiocracy"?

 

[ilwrath]

Well, as I see it, there is a complete vacuum of eligible candidates that have both party support and popular support.

On the Democrat side, you've got Bernie who is hated by every single business that supports the Democratic party. And I'm very willing to bet those conversations go a lot like this. "Boy, you know, when business is good, we have sure been able to donate a lot to the Democratic party. Would be a shame if Bernie gets in. He is bad for our business." So bingo, no superdelegates for Bernie. Hillary is a complete trainwreck, but she was the planned candidate from back 8 years ago. There was no plan B. But if the Democrat brass are hoping that everyone will just fall in line behind Hillary... I think they're in for a very rude awakening.

On the Republican side, they got completely and devastatingly blindsided. Everyone thought letting Trump run would be a harmless publicity grab. He was written off as a dumbass. Turns out, he's no dumbass. He has absolutely schooled the entire Republican team on how to play the game of politics. He is way better at politics than any politician in my lifetime, at least. He's performed the ultimate hostile takeover. And it looks like either the Republicans will have to take it, or will have to gut-check and face the revolt and outcry when they just appoint someone else. If they do that, Trumps prediction of riots may not be far off. The Republican machine has spent so many years making their frothing-at-the-mouth support base, and Trump just deftly hijacked them all. Turning your back on them? It may not be pretty. At all.

So, here we are. Not quite as much "Idiocracy" as a comedy that could have been penned by Shakespeare.

 

[Robert]

It's become the worst pantomime ever. Ludicrous state of affairs.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Given that we've already been told by the media that Hillary *will* be the Democratic candidate

The media is part of the same machine. The media won't endorse Bernie and the media won't endorse Trump. The Media, the Military and Wall St are the pillars of power (and for a while the churches were in their but not so much now). The myth of the Liberal Media still lives though the media hasn't been liberal in a while (except for putting more gays and minorities on TV their ideas of what the government should do with your money are way out on the right wing).

I'm not bringing Bernie into this, because we've already been told

Want to see how dirty it gets - Bernie may be left off of DC ballot. He got his money in on time but the party for to tell HQ in time that he had done it. Could it just possibly be that someone misplaced the memo for just long enough? Could you imagine that happening to Hillary? Could you imagine that, if it did happen to Hillary it wouldn't get fixed right away and no-body even needs to mention it? This sort of playground antics happens every election. It's really hard to win by playing fair.

I guess I'm actually hoping that the Republican party pulls their collective thumbs out of their collective asses and provides us with a realistic candidate, but at this point, I'm not sure who that might be as everyone in the system who might be nominated already qualifies as one of the same corrupt Washington elite.

No-one who hasn't been vetted and audience tested would be let in now and I think they'd have to do some rule changes to let it happen. The guys that are in their now (except Trump) are all lackeys.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

I guess I'm actually hoping that the Republican party pulls their collective thumbs out of their collective asses

Funny - I was just saying how the GOP could make rule changes to hobble Trump. Yup. Pay no attention to what the party membership wants (just like the Dems don't). The rules can be changed to pick the right winners and block the folks you don't want even if they are popular. I know Ron Paul got a lot of stick when he was running a few years back, and people round here picked up that stick and hit him with it even though they knew nothing about him (that is to say, they believed what the media said - but that works less today, partly because the guys in the trenches say it all 4 years ago and partly because Donald knows a lot more about media and how to use it).

Check out this quote:

'I'm not a big fan of the eight-state threshold. I think that's an artificial number,' David Wheeler, a rules committee member from South Dakota, told Politico. 'It was designed to prevent Ron Paul delegates – their votes from being counted. I don't think it's necessary to do that this year.'

See? He said it out loud. Shameless.

 

[Simply Sara]

Okay, Wayne, this so would have helped Lillie in a debate assignment that was due a bit ago. She was unsure how to phrase any of it. Every high school teacher seems to want to "seize the teachable moment" this election year, and she is at point break with frustration. She pretty much wants someone to explain the primary or caucus system and exactly what the electoral college is. They don't explain it at school, they just want them to write (i.e. rant) about how the system is bad, without learning what it's original purpose was. I try to find stuff to explain it, but with her myriad questions, I realize I don't really understand how we got to this two party system whatsoever other than tradition. (That is my rant, minus a fancy graphic - lol).

 

[Robert]

Another double win for the two-headed Trumpton monster last night. How depressingly predictable.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

NY polls were a mess!
NY polls were a mess!!
NY polls were a mess!!!

 

[Wayne]

Morning guys,

Rest assured, the Republican machine isn't going to allow Trump to go forward. Neither he nor Cruz have any potential of beating HRM Queen Benghazi in the general election, but Trump represents pretty much the end of the Republican Party as it stands.

I'm more upset because I was actually hoping that Bernie could pull something out or that HRM would be disqualified (or better yet in jail) by now. As I've said before, this is the year that America wakes up and realizes that their vote doesn't matter at all.

Wayne

 

[Robert]

NY polls were a mess!
NY polls were a mess!!
NY polls were a mess!!!

Palast has been on about this too:

“I just got off my 17 hour shift as an election official. In my election district, out of 166 Democratic voters, 39 were forced to file affidavit ballots. The last [election] I worked in, exactly ONE voter needed an affidavit ballot.”

That’s nearly one of four voters. Why? Their names had gone missing from the voter rolls.

An affidavit ballot (called a “provisional” ballot in most other states) is a kind of placebo ballot. You get to pretend to vote – but the chance it will actually be counted is …well, good luck. If your name is wrongly removed, kiss your vote – affidavit or not—goodbye.

Rheannon’s experience was hardly unique. In Brooklyn alone, over 125,000 names were quietly scrubbed from the voter rolls in the five months leading up to the primary.

To put it in prospective, the number of voters purged equals about half of the number who got to vote. Scott Stringer, the New York City Comptroller will now audit the Elections Board--now that the election is over. Hey thanks, Scott.

Neal Rosenstein, the lead voting rights attorney for the New York Public Interest Research Group, which plans legal action, notes that part of the problem is that partisan hacks sit on the Elections board in New York—hacks from both parties.

Brooklyn is under the control of the Kings County Democratic Party, one of the last of the big city machines. Would they attack their opponents’ voter registrations? I don’t have to guess: in my wasted younger days, I was in the Brooklyn County elections office with the hacks where we were assigned by the Party to challenge voters’ signatures en masse. (I wouldn’t and nearly lost my state job.)

Am I saying the machine “fixed” the election for Hillary Clinton? Without further investigation, it would be irresponsible for me to pronounce judgment.

- See more at: http://www.gregpalast.com/new-york-voting-fiasco-just-the-warm-up-for-the-november-game/#more-11734

 

[Robert]

Morning guys,

Rest assured, the Republican machine isn't going to allow Trump to go forward. Neither he nor Cruz have any potential of beating HRM Queen Benghazi in the general election

This is how I've seen the whole circus from the beginning and I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise - I still think she is a shoo-in.

but Trump represents pretty much the end of the Republican Party as it stands.

If so (not sure it will be, TBH), probably for the best in the long run.

I'm more upset because I was actually hoping that Bernie could pull something out or that HRM would be disqualified (or better yet in jail) by now.

Not often we agree on such matters but we do here.
Having said that, although I *hoped* something different would happen, I haven't been able to see past Clinton and always thought it unlikely.

As I've said before, this is the year that America wakes up and realizes that their vote doesn't matter at all.

Again, if that is the case then I'd say it's for the best.

 

[cecilia]

the problem with NY is that primaries are closed. (ie, you can only vote if you are registered under the party that is holding that primary)
I have hated this fact for years. I think it's unfair and sucks in general.

Bernie took most of upstate NY and Hillary took most of the city. While I find that slightly annoying, Bernie has most definitely been giving Hillary a run for her money. Bernie and his supporters are making her work for this nomination.
which is as it should be.

everytime I hear a Hillary supporter whine that it's "her time" or "she should just get it" or some other BS like that, I point out that no one should just waltz into any office. They better prove they at least are willing to put the time and energy into getting it. It should never be a slam dunk.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

the problem with NY is that primaries are closed. (ie, you can only vote if you are registered under the party that is holding that primary)
I have hated this fact for years. I think it's unfair and sucks in general.

I would be surprised if it were otherwise. I belong to several registered societies and I would be most alarmed if our votes were open to anyone who cares to walk in the door. Votes for who your party puts forward SHOULD be only open to members. Why would you think it should be otherwise?

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Interesting stuff on the superdelegates

 

[cecilia]

I would be surprised if it were otherwise. I belong to several registered societies and I would be most alarmed if our votes were open to anyone who cares to walk in the door. Votes for who your party puts forward SHOULD be only open to members. Why would you think it should be otherwise?

I don't want to join a party to have the right to vote.

 

[ilwrath]

I would be surprised if it were otherwise. I belong to several registered societies and I would be most alarmed if our votes were open to anyone who cares to walk in the door. Votes for who your party puts forward SHOULD be only open to members. Why would you think it should be otherwise?

Well, in almost all cases, I'd exactly agree with this sentiment. But I'd say that for this special case, it really does need to be open, though. For the general election, as Wayne listed out above, there will only be two choices that stand any practical chance at being elected. One from each party. Those parties are much less like a closed society, and more like the two finalist slots for the general election.

The primaries are where the field is narrowed to those two choices. You may not typically consider yourself either Democrat or Republican, so you may be registered as only one or the other, or even worse, independent or a third party. Lord knows, I don't support either of the two major parties. So, in these cases you may not be able to support the candidate you feel will be able to do the best job for the country, just because you're not pledged to the correct group of entitled bastards. F-- that noise. It's time to eliminate the exclusiveness of the red and blue. At this point, they're all basically the same party, anyhow.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

I don't want to join a party to have the right to vote.

You don't have to join a party to have the right to vote - but you do have to join a party to have the right to vote on party business - like who the party is going to put forward as a candidate.

The actually politically engaged people who care about changing things understand this and are taking action. This is what is going on and what the old guard in both parties are trying to fight against. You want to vote on party business - join the party - flood it until you can't be stopped. The first cycle was Ron Paul - this cycle is lessons learned plus (the people's) tea party and occupy. If it doesn't crack this time it should crack next time - but you don't get there by complaining about how the game is unfair, you get there by playing the game until you win.

 

[cecilia]

You don't have to join a party to have the right to vote - but you do have to join a party to have the right to vote on party business - like who the party is going to put forward as a candidate.

The actually politically engaged people who care about changing things understand this and are taking action. This is what is going on and what the old guard in both parties are trying to fight against. You want to vote on party business - join the party - flood it until you can't be stopped. The first cycle was Ron Paul - this cycle is lessons learned plus (the people's) tea party and occupy. If it doesn't crack this time it should crack next time - but you don't get there by complaining about how the game is unfair, you get there by playing the game until you win.

I hope you realize that not every state has closed primaries. So the excuse that I "NEED" to join some stupid party is bullshit.

What needs to happen is that new yorkers insist on a change.

 

[ilwrath]

The first cycle was Ron Paul - this cycle is lessons learned plus (the people's) tea party and occupy. If it doesn't crack this time it should crack next time - but you don't get there by complaining about how the game is unfair, you get there by playing the game until you win.

I didn't get that it was complaining. It was identifying a problem that needs to be fixed. The primary is open in Michigan. I was able to write in Ron Paul last cycle (he was removed from the Michigan primary, due to cronyism), and vote for Bernie this cycle. If I lived in New York, though, there is no way that could have been possible.

 

[ilwrath]

Soo... Kasich and Cruz are out of it.

Looks like the GOP is all set to go full Trump.

And there is no media outlet anywhere that seems like they want to mention that Hillary dropped another state......