Do you have asthma? The FDA and greenies want you to hurry up and die.

redrumloa

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Primatene Mist will be banned after Dec 31.

However, a few years ago, Primatene Mist came under scrutiny due to environmental concerns, primarily because the inhaler type uses chlorofluorocarbins. The compounds, commonly referred to as CFCs, are known to damage the ozone layer.

In 2006, an FDA advisory panel voted 11-7 that Primatene Mist did not serve an essential health need, and in 2008, they finalized plans to phase the drug out.

The action was a part of an agreement signed by the U.S. and other nations to stop using substances that deplete the ozone layer, which blocks harmful ultraviolet rays from the sun.

Primatene Mist only keeps asthma suffers from dying, that isn't an essential health need. Asthma suffers could simply die off, problem solved and we can all hug a tree.
 

faethor

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Red you're really running over the top lately. While Primatene Mist may keep people from dying it clearly is not the only option. Albuterol is a prescribed medicine that will do the same thing. If one's asthma is more serve it may be a better choice. Options exist. The penality here comes with cost and insurance.

I haven't settled on an answer. Just wanted to note the sensationalized messages you've been putting out there.
 

FluffyMcDeath

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Getting rid of non-prescription generic out of patent medications? That sounds like there is going to be more money spent on getting prescriptions from doctors and more money spent on newer, more expensive patent medicines.
Doesn't sound like this has much to do with the environment.
 

the_leander

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Getting rid of non-prescription generic out of patent medications? That sounds like there is going to be more money spent on getting prescriptions from doctors and more money spent on newer, more expensive patent medicines. Doesn't sound like this has much to do with the environment.

Err, chlorofluorocarbon based inhalers have been on the way out since the mid 1990s and replaced with hydrofluoralkanes (HFA) precisely because of the CFC content of the former. The change required a redesign which actually resulted in the things producing smaller particles which in turn made them more effective.

The vast majority of generics are available in HFA format and no doubt an epinephrine based one will become available as and when. It should be noted that these changes were set in 2008 and in turn were a reaffirmation of the 1987 Montreal Protocal and were very much something to do with the environment.

I swear this place is getting more an more kooky with every post.
 

redrumloa

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Getting rid of non-prescription generic out of patent medications? That sounds like there is going to be more money spent on getting prescriptions from doctors and more money spent on newer, more expensive patent medicines.
Doesn't sound like this has much to do with the environment.

Yep, exactly. So there are trace amounts of CFC in an inexpensive OTC product that keeps people from dying and some people here agree it should be phased out in favor of ultra expensive drugs that you must get a prescription for? This logic absolutely boggles my mind. 3 million people in the USA must now pay Big Pharma for the right to stay alive. WOW!
 

FluffyMcDeath

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The vast majority of generics are available in HFA format and no doubt an epinephrine based one will become available as and when.
The initial article stated that the epinephrine product was in process to get approval for an HFA formulation. Why not wait for approval and then continue the sale under the old over the counter conditions? That sounds reasonable.
 

the_leander

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The initial article stated that the epinephrine product was in process to get approval for an HFA formulation. Why not wait for approval and then continue the sale under the old over the counter conditions? That sounds reasonable.

What is to stop precisely that from happening? AFAIK if such a licence to sell was applied for and approved it could be sold in exactly the same manner.

The only difference being that now you'd not be releasing CFCs into the atmosphere.
 

the_leander

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3 million people in the USA must now pay Big Pharma for the right to stay alive. WOW!

Newsflash: They already were paying "Big Pharma" to stay alive. As to whether or not the HFA based product costs more remains to be seen.
 

redrumloa

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Where is the evidence that they intend to block over the counter licensing?

The FDA track record and the fact come Jan 1 there will be no comparable product. Do you really think Primatene Mist's makers would happily walk away from 3M repeat customers if they had an FDA approved product lined up? Don't forget this is the same FDA working towards eventually outlawing vitamins.
 

faethor

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Again there is comparable, actually better, products on the market. The negative, or positive, is one has to see a doctor to get them. And if HFA inhalers are on the way it should be a relatively short time.

Perhaps Red should be industrious. Buy a case of these and sit on them for 1/2 a year. Certainly they will go up in price. Perhaps even more than the better products. That way people don't have to pay a Dr. they can pay you.
 

redrumloa

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Again there is comparable, actually better, products on the market. The negative, or positive, is one has to see a doctor to get them.

Negative, all negative. You are have the government dictating to 3 million people that they must pay Big Pharma if they want to live.

And if HFA inhalers are on the way it should be a relatively short time.
If that was true they would already be on the market.

Perhaps Red should be industrious. Buy a case of these and sit on them for 1/2 a year. Certainly they will go up in price. Perhaps even more than the better products. That way people don't have to pay a Dr. they can pay you.

I don't want to be biting a pillow in prison for the rest of my life.
 

the_leander

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Negative, all negative.

Actually, if you are going to start taking any medication you should be consulting a doctor. Self medication is an inherently dangerous path to go down for non medically trained people.

And again, there is no evidence that extra restrictions will be placed over and above what applied to Primatene Mist.

It would also be wholly untrue to dismiss out of hand the alternatives to that product.

You are have the government dictating to 3 million people that they must pay Big Pharma if they want to live.

For the love of... How many times does this need repeating until it gets through:

Wake up red, they already were paying "Big Pharma" to live.

And the worst part is, there is nothing happening now that didn't happen in the licensing of the old stuff.
 

FluffyMcDeath

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Where is the evidence that they intend to block over the counter licensing?
Unfortunately the system is thoroughly corrupted and the regulatory agencies have been captured by industry. There are still good people working in the FDA and other agencies, but the good people don't run those places and have the final say. All the power positions have been filled by appointees often suggested by industry.

When crocodiles are involved it is best not to ask if there is evidence that they intend to eat you, but assume that they do, at least until they prove that they won't.
 

redrumloa

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For the love of... How many times does this need repeating until it gets through:

Wake up red, they already were paying "Big Pharma" to live.

You don't live in the USA so I will forgive your ignorance of common terminology. OTC (Over The Counter, no prescription needed) products are not considered "Big Pharma". A gas station could sell Primatene Mist if they wanted to and the cost is/was very affordable without regularly scheduled doctors visits. After Jan 1 not only will they be paying many multiples for a product that keeps them alive, but they will also have to pay for repeated doctor visits to have the right to buy that product that keeps them alive. Even worse you don't seem to know or care that many people use Primatene Mist because that is the product their body tolerates well? What isn't mentioned so far is the fact that pulling this product will directly result in the deaths in a number of people with Asthma.
 

faethor

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OTC (Over The Counter, no prescription needed) products are not considered "Big Pharma".
I too live in the USA and I fully disagree. 'Big Pharma' is the large, and shrinking, corporate production of medicine. In the case of Primatene Mist it's made by Amphastar Pharmaceuticals. They specialize in generic drugs. Which means they wait until patents run out and try to rush the cheap alternative to market first. Certainly they have a HUGE interest in keeping Primatene Mist on the market. As it's OTC it's probably first, at worst second, in aerosol based Asthma medicines sold in the USA.

Not yet considered 'Big Pharma' is the vitamin, herbal aids, and health suppliment industry. It appears the consumers do not yet know that the 'Big Pharma' has bought most of those companys too. Big Herba and Big Pharma are now one in the same. Here's even the Fox source as I know you prefer them Red. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525643,00.html The reason is Big Herba can be even more profitable.

After Jan 1 not only will they be paying many multiples for a product that keeps them alive, but they will also have to pay for repeated doctor visits to have the right to buy that product that keeps them alive
The question I ask is when will the HFA version be available. Afterall the market has known for 5 years, at least, this was coming. Most all of the medicines have already made the switch.

What isn't mentioned so far is the fact that pulling this product will directly result in the deaths in a number of people with Asthma
You're sensationalizing the impact by trying to discard the alternatives. We've seen it before - without lead how will be drive our cars? Oh yeah fixed.
 

the_leander

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You don't live in the USA so I will forgive your ignorance of common terminology. OTC (Over The Counter, no prescription needed) products are not considered "Big Pharma".

The terminology is common in the UK too, and as faethor states, it is still corporate production of medicine, in this case Amphastar Pharmaceuticals.

Just because you don't need a prescription doesn't change the fact that it's still a big pharmaceutical behind the product.

After Jan 1 not only will they be paying many multiples for a product that keeps them alive

Again, before you can make that statement, you'll have to provide proof, otherwise at this stage you're just scaremongering.

Have you even compared the prices of this stuff verses current alternative HFA based inhalers marketed today?

Hint $59 gets you x3 Ventolin (albuterol) 100mcg (200 doses).

How does that compare against Primatene Mist?

, but they will also have to pay for repeated doctor visits to have the right to buy that product that keeps them alive.

This is begging for a nudge about socialised health care.

Seriously though, would this not get covered by most health insurances, not to mention medicare/caid

Even worse you don't seem to know or care that many people use Primatene Mist because that is the product their body tolerates well?

You're right, I don't know how many people use it. That doesn't change the fact that this has been on the cards since the mid 90's. Or the fact that there are cost effective alternatives available today.

What isn't mentioned so far is the fact that pulling this product will directly result in the deaths in a number of people with Asthma.

See Faethor's response.
 

faethor

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Again, before you can make that statement, you'll have to provide proof, otherwise at this stage you're just scaremongering.

Have you even compared the prices of this stuff verses current alternative HFA based inhalers marketed today?

Hint $59 gets you x3 Ventolin (albuterol) 100mcg (200 doses). How does that compare against Primatene Mist?
http://www.shopping.com/primatene-mist/products?sb=1 is one source. One of the lower cost options was $20 for 15ml. Not sure the dosing, someone can work that out, but it seems fairly comparable.

Seriously though, would this not get covered by most health insurances, not to mention medicare/caid
In many cases in the USA health insurance does not provide 100% coverage and there would be some out of pocket costs. Mine is ~$40 for an office visit. Though the plus of my healthcoverage is if I mail order it costs me $5. This makes about $45 for an office visit and the better albuterol medicine. A quick view of my options for spending is that it'd be cheaper for me to go to the doctor first.
 

the_leander

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http://www.shopping.com/primatene-mist/products?sb=1 is one source. One of the lower cost options was $20 for 15ml. Not sure the dosing, someone can work that out, but it seems fairly comparable.

Going through it looks like an individual cannister and is priced almost identically to a single of albuterol. Likewise triple packs cost around the same as the price quoted for the triple Ventolin pack I found.

Either way you're right, there isn't a whole lot in it and certainly makes a mockery of claims that pulling the mist will kill people.

In many cases in the USA health insurance does not provide 100% coverage and there would be some out of pocket costs. Mine is ~$40 for an office visit. Though the plus of my healthcoverage is if I mail order it costs me $5. This makes about $45 for an office visit and the better albuterol medicine. A quick view of my options for spending is that it'd be cheaper for me to go to the doctor first.

Tbh I'd have been surprised if it wasn't the case. Any idea on how it'd pan out for folks on medicaid/care?
 
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