whyzzat.com

RE: Georgia, the Olympics, the US armada and Iran

Today's developments:

Putin blames US for Georgia role

Quote:

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused the US of provoking the conflict in Georgia, possibly for domestic election purposes.

Mr Putin told CNN US citizens were "in the area" during the conflict over South Ossetia and were "taking direct orders from their leaders".

He said his defence officials had told him the provocation was to benefit one of the US presidential candidates.

Quite laughable. It seems Putin has been reading Whyzzat.com! I guess he thought the internet conspiracy theorists needed some help here. However, the article gets really interesting at the very bottom:

Quote:

Earlier on Thursday Russia failed to get strong backing from its Asian allies over the Georgia conflict.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), comprising Russia, China and Central Asian nations, met in Dushanbe, Tajikistan, and spoke of its deep concern.

The group did not follow Russia in recognising the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

It seems Russia's closest allies didn't really dig what Russia did in S. Ossetia either. However, it doesn't look like Russia cares a whole lot and seems to be going out of it's way to up the ante:

Quote:

Amid the rising tension, Russia announced on Thursday it had successfully tested its long-range Topol ballistic missile from a launch site in Kamchatka in the far east of the country.

Russia says the rocket is capable of penetrating the proposed US missile defence.

Russians are good chess players, and the rook just traded places with the king. Welcome to the new Cold War.

- Mike

RE: Georgia, the Olympics, the US armada and Iran

Robert wrote:

I'm aware this is just a poll, which is why I used the word 'apparently'.
On the other hand I see nothing to tell me otherwise and I for one do buy the idea that the Ukrainian leadership is acting against the wishes of the majority in this case.

Not necessarily. From your own article we have:

Ukraine's Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko said previously that a decision on whether Ukraine should take up any future NATO offer to join the alliance would only be taken after a nationwide referendum.

Also, the survey was conducted many months ago. Things might have changed since the S. Ossetian war. But despite that, the article states that only 36% would oppose NATO in a referendum, which leaves 63% unaccounted for. I'd imagine that Russia helped the fence-sitters make a quick decision this past month.

Quote:

I also wonder what makes you think they wouldn't act against the wishes of the majority. My government does it regularly, Iraq being the most obvious example.

I never said the Ukrainian would never act against the majorities wishes. I just speculated that in this case they are in tune with the majority - and I still stand by that speculation until I see evidence to counter that.

And one reason why some Ukrainians may not want to join NATO:

Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, has threatened to re-target nuclear missiles toward Ukraine if it joins the Western military alliance.

It may not be for hate of the West that some wish to stay out of NATO. It may be fear of Russia and how it will retaliate.

- Mike

RE: Georgia, the Olympics, the US armada and Iran

Glaucus wrote:

Robert wrote:

Glaucus wrote:

the Ukraine is seriously concerned about Russia's long term plans.

Hardly surprising, given the Ukranian government's (although apparently not the Ukrainian population's) desire to join NATO.

I really don't know much about what the average Ukrainian thinks of NATO, [..] I certainly don't buy the idea that the Ukrainian leadership is acting against the wishes of the majority in this case.

Don't take my word for it:

Quote:

Only 11.1% of Ukrainians polled in a survey published on Monday said they supported the country's drive to join NATO, while almost 36% said they would vote against the plans if a referendum were held.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/ukraine/2008/ukraine-080317-rianovosti01.htm

I'm aware this is just a poll, which is why I used the word 'apparently'.
On the other hand I see nothing to tell me otherwise and I for one do buy the idea that the Ukrainian leadership is acting against the wishes of the majority in this case.

I also wonder what makes you think they wouldn't act against the wishes of the majority. My government does it regularly, Iraq being the most obvious example.

RE: Georgia, the Olympics, the US armada and Iran

Robert wrote:

Glaucus wrote:

the Ukraine is seriously concerned about Russia's long term plans.

Hardly surprising, given the Ukranian government's (although apparently not the Ukrainian population's) desire to join NATO.

I really don't know much about what the average Ukrainian thinks of NATO, but it does appear that the population is split between the West and Russia - with the pro-West being a majority. And that makes historic sense. The Ukrainian suffered under Soviet rule, but at the same time many Russians moved into the area. If the majority of Ukrainians really want to severe the ties with Russia, NATO is their best chance at that. The Ukrainian Russians will probably protest this, with much support and encouragement from Russia I'm sure. I certainly don't buy the idea that the Ukrainian leadership is acting against the wishes of the majority in this case.

Quote:

No doubt any such move will have the hypocrites out in force again, with their ludicrous cries of "unacceptable," etc.

Maybe, but it does seem like a well planned escalation of the cold war here. Btw, notice that many of the nations in the SCO, and those planning to join, have some of the worst human rights records with dubious forms of government?

Quote:

Interesting restraint for a so-called 'free democracy'.

I think it sounds reasonable considering the situation.

Quote:

Well, of course and this is exactly one of the points some of us have been trying to make above the hypocritical din of Georgia-good-Russia-bad rhetoric coming from almost all the major news outlets and US/UK governments.

The Kosovo Albanians were encouraged by Western support and when the KLA made attacks on Serbs, the Serbs attacked back and that gave NATO the "moral" authority to attack the Serbs. Here, Russia armed and encouraged the South Ossetians to attack the Georgians, which they did. They drew in the Georgians in much the same way as the KLA drew in the Serbs, and the Georgian attack drew in Russia much how the Serbs drew in NATO. I opposed the NATO attack on Serbia as I oppose the Russian attack on Georgia. Kosovo was a win for the West, S. Ossetia a win for Russia. One may argue that Russia was driven to make their move with NATO expansion and the missile defense shield in Europe, but I can not believe that the US was directly behind this war. Whether Georgia is good or evil is secondary to me as there's a much bigger picture here.

- Mike

RE: Georgia, the Olympics, the US armada and Iran

Glaucus wrote:

the Ukraine is seriously concerned about Russia's long term plans.

Hardly surprising, given the Ukranian government's (although apparently not the Ukranian population's) desire to join NATO.

As an aside, anyone fancy a counterweight to NATO?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/944f00c2-74d8-11dd-ab30-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

Quote:

The Russian president was also quoted by Bloomberg news agency as proposing the expansion of the SCO, a loose security grouping with China and five Central Asian states, as a counterweight to NATO and the West. The goal �is the further growth of the authority of our organisation in the world arena,�� Mr Medvedev was quoted as saying.

In addition to Russia and China, the seven-year-old SCO includes the former Soviet republics of Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan.

The group may decide on Thursday to admit either India, Iran, Pakistan or Mongolia, which currently have �observer� status, Mr Medvedev said.

No doubt any such move will have the hypocrites out in force again, with their ludicrous cries of "unacceptable," etc.

Quote:

Ukraine does not allow it's citizens dual citizenship for the very reason that it has always been expected that Russia would attempt to issue passports to Ukrainians and cultivate it's support base in the country.

Interesting restraint for a so-called 'free democracy'.

Quote:

It's similar to Kosovo where Albanian civilians first "immigrated" and then decided to make the land their own - thanks to Western intervention. It seems Russia took careful notes.

RE: Colder winter or warmer? fear mongers -vs- old timer voodoo

smithy wrote:

One side has such an self-inflated image of their own power they believe they can change the weather.

Easter Island was forested when humans arrived there. It isn't now. If the population had stayed low it'd probably be so still. It's all about numbers.

Currently there are about 7 billion people on the planet. If everyone stopped being born and dying for a while so that you could shake hands with them all, if you met one person a second without stopping to eat or sleep or anything else then you could meet 7 billion people in slightly less than 222 years. On the other hand you could meet all the Bengal Tigers in less than half an hour.

While the world is big, 7 billion people is a seriously large number of people. But also, not all relationships are linear. It only takes one silly bugger with a match to ruin a big bit of forest.

Obviously solar output is a factor in the earth's temperature but it isn't the only factor and no-one has ever denied that it is. Volcanic activity is also a factor and no-one has ever denied that it is. There are other factors too and human activity is one of those factors. However, because it can effect people's profits it is one that does get denied. It is denied for political reasons, not scientific.

RE: Colder winter or warmer? fear mongers -vs- old timer voodoo

redrumloa wrote:

There is a lot of evidence to the existence of BigFoot, DNA being the icing on the cake. Don't be a flat earther

Bigfoot is a hoax.

Consider the requirements of a Large mammal:

The minimum breeding population required not to go extinct

gestation period and number of births

Daily food intake requirements.

Then consider Geography, North and South America are fully explored areas.

There would be scat evidence of Bigfoots existance.

It would be more likely to find a living tribe of Neanderthals than bigfoot.

Stop the presses! Metallica releases a heavy metal song!

After ~20 years of candy-ass pop music and other assorted garbage, Metallica streams a song off their new album that sounds like heavy metal!

wm.elektra.com/metallica/metallica_com/2008/de/My_Apocalypse.wma

I may have to buy a Metallica album for the first time in 17 years. That album 17 years ago? The self titled "Black Album", that killed Metallica. Everything since then has been even worse yet.

RE: Colder winter or warmer? fear mongers -vs- old timer voodoo

One side has such an self-inflated image of their own power they believe they can change the weather.

RE: Georgia, the Olympics, the US armada and Iran

When all this started I talked about it with a work mate who's from Kiev. He even worked for Sukhoi making inter-component communications systems for Soviet fighter planes. Anyway, he told me that from what he could tell (remember, he reads Russian & Ukrainian news sites) it really did seem as if Russia pre-planned it. Not only that, the Ukraine is seriously concerned about Russia's long term plans. The Ukraine is bigger and closer to Europe then Georgia is, but that probably doesn't count for much against Russia. He told me that Ukraine does not allow it's citizens dual citizenship for the very reason that it has always been expected that Russia would attempt to issue passports to Ukrainians and cultivate it's support base in the country. In other words, this type of invasion by civilians, then followed by military is a ploy the Russians have been expected on using. It's similar to Kosovo where Albanian civilians first "immigrated" and then decided to make the land their own - thanks to Western intervention. It seems Russia took careful notes. In this case all they needed to do was issue passports and Kalashnikovs (with the promise that the vodka would come later).

- Mike

RE: Georgia, the Olympics, the US armada and Iran

Maybe a bit overdramatic, but French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said he assumes that Ukraine and Moldova are now "Russian targets,''. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2YBE9JJtC4A&refer=home.

RE: Liberal, feel good, PC bullcrap again

[quote="FluffyMcDeath"]

redrumloa wrote:

No, but he should definitely be in a more senior league for his own good and the good of the league he was in.

We dont know the specifics, so we are assuming. Usually the older leagues wont take someone under their age limit. Age limits are not usually 1-2 years like you guys imply, but 4 or more. I think implying that a 14-18 league would take a 9 year old is unrealistic, nor would it be appropriate.

RE: Liberal, feel good, PC bullcrap again

redrumloa wrote:

FluffyMcDeath wrote:

Coz he likes to beat the living snot out of the beginners. Probably wouldn't enjoy the challenge of players at his own level.

Fluffy, the boy is 9. Do you really think the Red Socks can sign him

No, but he should definitely be in a more senior league for his own good and the good of the league he was in.

RE: Democrats feeding on themselves?

Glaucus wrote:

Most likely they're just Limbaugh's Zombies (hmm... I think I should trademark that one) doing his dirty work, as Faethor suggested above.

That's a valid observation I think. Rush has been advocating for Repubs to support Hillary by any means necessary as he sees here as so much more beatable than Obama.

RE: Colder winter or warmer? fear mongers -vs- old timer voodoo

redrumloa wrote:

There lies the problem mike. You all think global warming is man made, while the other side think that is crap.

One side thinks it's all man-made or all natural and since it isn't all man-made it must be all natural and the other side understands that it is a combination and spend their time trying to quantify the many contributions to the phenomenon.